VIDEO: Hey, comic book fans: Why so racist?

by · February 27, 2014

With the announcement of Michael B. Jordan playing the Human Torch in a racially diverse Fantastic Four, Sybil takes a moment to talk about how comic book fans can still be the worst.

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  • Muthsarah

    Did ANYONE out there object to Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury? I can see some knee-jerk reactionary manchildren objecting to a black Nick Fury in principle…but I find it hard to believe that very many people would object to Jackson as Nick Fury. There are some people so universally cool, even unconscious/lazy/arbitrary/thirteen-year-old racists would make exceptions for them. If they had cast him as Heimdall as well, I bet there’da been less whining.

    Regarding acceptable “ethnic” roles of yore, don’t forget about the one acceptable female type: the exotic tan/golden-skinned female yearning to be rescued by the enlightened white guy. Who will probably die in the third act, cuz it’s not like the hero can take her home.

    • $36060516
      • Muthsarah

        Well, that doesn’t seem racially-motivated. Just upset that he didn’t get cast in a role he wanted and probably felt he deserved. Or desperately needed.

      • $36060516

        And another:

        http://www.hollywood.com/news/celebrities/55040949/why-changing-race-of-established-characters-is-wrong

        (I googled “Samuel Jackson Nick Fury race.)

        I’m not actually a fan of the Samuel Jackson Nick Fury. Not for racial reasons but because of the whole cynical way it happened. Mark Millar came up with the commercial idea of having his artists draw the characters to resemble real celebrities so that he could then get these actors interested in playing the characters, which would encourage Hollywood to make the movies. He did this first with “Wanted,” though the movie didn’t end up with his choices. So, Millar created the Samuel Jackson version of Nick Fury in the comic books without Jackson’s permission as a way to flatter Jackson into wanting to do it, and he fell for it. It didn’t have much to do with creativity, it was about making money.

        But beyond that I don’t care for any of the Marvel movies after the first “Blade,” so I’m obviously not the intended audience.

        • Muthsarah

          I didn’t mean to come off as so absolutist with my initial question. I’m not surprised there was SOME controversy, just a bit surprised it would be anything comparable to the Heimdall one (I don’t pay much attention to this kind of news, and paid even less during the Nick Fury revamping, though I had heard of it, because Sam Jackson). The Heimdall uproar seemed so ridiculous, especially as the movie – and possibly the comic book itself, I dunno – had an easy way to hand-wave away any inconsistencies with popular conceptions of Norse mythology built into its very foundation: that Marvel’s gods were witnessed by the ancient Norse, which, in a god-of-triangles way, would likely portray the gods in a way that fit their tellers/skalds and more importantly, their audiences. So a “black” Heimdall would become simply “a Heimdall”, who would be (re-)interpretted as being white. Perfectly rational.

          Not that rationality seemed to have anything to do with the kerfuffle.

          And I had thought Jackson signed off on the Nick Fury idea early, even liked the idea. Cynical or not, it seemed to work out pretty well in getting these movies made. Or are many long-time Marvel fans disappointed with how they’ve turned out?

          • $36060516

            Probably not… I fell off the bandwagon awhile back.

          • elementary_watson

            “The Heimdall uproar seemed so ridiculous, especially as the movie – and
            possibly the comic book itself, I dunno – had an easy way to hand-wave
            away any inconsistencies with popular conceptions of Norse mythology
            built into its very foundation: that Marvel’s gods were witnessed by the
            ancient Norse, which, in a god-of-triangles way, would likely portray
            the gods in a way that fit their tellers/skalds and more importantly,
            their audiences. So a “black” Heimdall would become simply “a
            Heimdall”, who would be (re-)interpretted as being white. Perfectly
            rational.”

            Well, nope. You could argue that a “black” Heimdall would simply become “colour-nonspecific Heimdall”, but that’s not how Heimdall was described: He was described as “the whitest of the Aesir”.

            If you actually do care about this kind of stuff, the Heimdall casting is extremely hard to explain away; however, director Kenneth Branagh made it clear how little he is bothered by this when he casted Denzel Washington and Keanu Reeves as brothers 😉

          • jjramsey

            On the other hand, given that the Marvel Universe takes huge liberties with Norse mythology anyway, there should be no great expectation that Marvel’s version of Heimdall be exactly like the Heimdall in the original myths.

          • elementary_watson

            Sure, I mean, in my opinion Branagh was just having fun with the casting, slightly trolling those who care about the representation of Heimdall (was anyone pissed off by the casting of Hogun?). I see it as something to grin about, accept and move on; kind of like how a well-read child wants to be adopted by Agamemnon in Time Bandits …

        • Alexa

          Thor: The Dark World was pretty awesome. And at least with the current Marvel movies they try to stay true the characters and make very well made and entertaining films. Us DC fans don’t get such luxury : /

    • Nobody ever cites Michael Clarke Duncan as the Kingpin either, mostly because it was size rather than race which physically defined the character.

      • The_Stig

        And the fact that MIchael Clarke Duncan was the shit.

      • Solkir

        I actually found quite a few people who complained about that when I was researching for my Daredevil review. Their reasons were even more idiotic, so I didn’t dignify it in that video.

  • Muthsarah

    Heh, noticed the title change. Whose idea was that? :p

    • Well, I was considering quoting Sybil/Solkir in the video and calling it “Comic book fans are hella racist”, but I decided to soften it a bit, since not all (or most) comics fans are racist, of course.

      • Muthsarah

        Yeah, someone’s gotta be the adult, right? Though I understand why you’d do it, it’s also fun seeing someone in your position occasionally get a little…unrestrained, like you did over Jenn Proske (EDIT: Well, everything in that video, actually).

        • The_Stig

          Comic book fans aren’t racist, necessarily. What they are is obsessive. Very, VERY obsessive about details. They will nitpick until they’re blue in the face. They get crazy when a film doesn’t get the costume right, changing a character’s ethnicity is a pretty BIG detail.

          Luckily, the rest of the film is so aggressively miscast it’s hardly going to matter in the long run.

          • Muthsarah

            I’m a Trekkie. None of this needs to be explained to me. 🙂

            Out of curiosity, was there anything the last two Fantastic Four films got right about their four main characters (or Dr. Doom)? Do the new movies have anything positive to build on, or is it likely to be a full Batman &Robin –> Begins “let’s pretend none of that ever happened” mass brain-wipe?

          • The_Stig

            Mainly they’re just forgettable crappy movies but there’s something the Tim Story F4 films did get right. I thought Chris Evans was perfect, because Johnny Storm actually is a ginormous douchebag in the comics and Evans did a very good job of capturing that.

            Which is kind of the reason I’m against the change. You see, changing his ethnicity to african-american may actually do more harm than good, because assuming they stay true to the character’s personality, Johnny Storm will be a complete jackass. Which means that now that he’s black he’s going to come off like a prima donna pro athlete or an egotistical rapper. Basically Kanye West with Superpowers, which means they’ve now exchanged whitewashing for a negative stereotype. Granted this is just a theory, but with this movie’s other boneheaded judgment calls it wouldn’t surprise me if this is what they do.

            With luck, the movie will bomb, they scrap the sequel and we can all get on with our lives. This movie is going to suck all asses, and it won’t be because of Michael B. Jordan.

          • Thomas Stockel

            I would say also Michael Chicklis as The Thing was pretty good casting. I was a big fan of his on The Shield and I think he captured Ben’s gruff exterior. Some of the best parts of the film are The Thing/Torch interactions, which captured the love/hate tone of the comics perfectly.

            I would have cast George Clooney as Mister Fantastic and Charlize Theron as Sue Storm. Charlize is both actually older than Chris Evans (He and Alba are the same age; were the Storms supposed to be twins or something?) and she can pull off a role with some gravitas. Of course, like any geek I am prone to dream casting.

          • So when a white actor plays a conceited character he’s “perfect” and doing a “very good job”, but if a black actor plays the same character in the same way he’ll be a “jackass”, a “prima donna”, and “egotistical”? Do you realize how you sound when you say things like that? I mean, that’s not even getting into how you immediately went to the rapper/athlete comparisons.

          • Solkir

            It’s interesting the things that fall out when you question representation of race.

          • The_Stig

            Race bait much, Winston? Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, IS a jackass. And yes, unfortunately yes. Now that he’s black and assuming they keep his douchiness intact I’m expecting him to be written like a prima donna pro athlete or an egotistical rapper. Why? Because this is a Hollywood movie written by Hollywood people, and they can only write characters in stereotypes.

            Just because I’m expecting it doesn’t mean I want it to happen. I want to be wrong about this, I really really do.

            As I said above. The way this film is shaping up, a black Human Torch is going to be the least of this movie’s problems.

          • That’s *your* stereotype. Hollywood realized a long time ago that black men can be something other than rappers and athletes.

          • Muthsarah

            I dunno, I don’t read his posts that way. He just seems to be anticipating the backlash and not wishing it on the franchise. Cocky white guy = white guy who is cocky, but still potentially likeable. Cocky black guy = Comic relief sidekick and/or comic thug. Big Hollywood movies not made by black filmmakers do still tend to do this, the dwelling in badly outdated “other” stereotypes. EDIT: I mean, the black (and not-so-black) characters in Transformers movies for example. Which I haven’t seen, partly because of what I’ve heard.

            The bigger the movie, the shallower the characterizations, tendencies go. I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that with the makers of this film making the one already-arrogant and self-important character (if that is an accurate description of Johnny Storm beyond “cocky”) into the movie’s sole black sidekick character, that they would be hewing closer to these old stereotypes than they should be. I dunno, maybe I’M projecting now. Instead of, well, making him into the mature, scientific genius, father-figure character instead. If they were going to race-switch one of them, why pick Johnny? And what does that choice suggest?

  • When people complain about this, just point out that the previous two Fantastic Four films already gave us biracial siblings. Jessica Alba is Latina and Chris Evans is not. It really seems like changing a character’s race only becomes an issue when they change it to black.

    • Nessus

      Jessica Alba passes for white with ease, and can (and does) play white characters. I’d actually put money on the notion that most white audiences (and casting directors) who don’t already know her ethnicity actually think that she’s white. Although she herself is Latina, I don’t believe her Sue Storm was intended to be Latina by the filmmakers, so those films IMO didn’t give us biracial siblings, just biracial casting.

      I’m not arguing the ethics of that, mind you, just pointing out that since Hollywood typically only applies a “looks close enough” sort of standard when it comes to casting ethnicity, you can only hold the ethnicity of an actor to the roles they play in high-contrast instances.

      • The_Stig

        Too bad she can’t pass for an actress.

        • $36060516

          I just read an article about “Sin City 2” in which Frank Miller actually says “Jessica Alba is eight times the actress now that she was in the first one.” He he.

          • The_Stig

            I’m sure by actress he meant ‘whore’, because Frank Miller.

      • Nasty In The Pasty

        Alba passes “with ease” for white? Um….not really. She looked RIDICULOUS with a blonde wig and eerie blue contact lenses(!) in the FF movies.

        • Muthsarah

          White, yes. Blonde, no. Making Sue Storm a dark brunette woulda been a better move if they were determined to cast Alba, but I assume they blonded her up knowing that if they didn’t, the fans would just complain about that too. In the end, they pleased nobody, which seems to happen when movies are handled horribly from the get-go.

    • $36060516

      It was an issue with Alba as well for some people (not me) — most notably former Fantastic Four writer/artist John Byrne who wrote a truly loathsome thing about it on his fan message board:

      “Personal prejudice: Hispanic and Latino women with blond hair look like hookers to me, no matter how clean or “cute” they are. Somehow those skin tones that look so good with dark, dark hair just don’t work for me with lighter shades. Like I said — personal prejudice.”

  • The_Stig

    Quite honestly, the new Fantastic Four film is shaping up to be such a perfect clusterfuck that a black Human Torch is going to be the least of its problems.

    • Based on what? The casting is the only thing that has been announced and they didn’t even include a villain.

  • Anne Grey

    I don’t care if the Human Torch is black as long as they keep him and the Invisible Woman siblings and as far as Nick Fury is concerned well those that have a problem with it can take it up with the comics. Fury wound up in limbo and when he was brought back he was no longer white but black! So Samuel L. Jackson being cast is rather appropriate to continuity. Now if you could just point me at these racist whiners, I do believe I’ll beat the stupid out of them with an Avengers compendium.

    • Thomas Stockel

      I never had a problem with Fury being black, I think for two reasons. The first is, I never cared about Nick Furty so it didn’t really matter. The second, Nick Fury’s original origin has him tied into WW II and it made sense for the new one to not be tied down with that baggage, since the whole point of the Ultimate Universe was to do away with that sort of thing.

      It’s how they wrote in the new Neck Fury jr. where I have the problem. He just happens to be Nick Sr.’s son. Fine, entirely plausible. But then almost right out the bat he’s given a senior position? And the bad guy so graciously insures the son is one-eyed like his Dad? It just…I dunno, it felt contrived and rushed to me.

      • Solkir

        Yeah, they’re often too quick to adopt concepts from the films into the book cannon. It’s a failing of both companies.

        • Thomas Stockel

          This is true. I just remembered that time when Peter was “reborn” with organic web shooters. Them getting rid of those was the only good thing about One More Day.

          • Jay_Bay

            All jokes aside, what was wrong with organic web shooters. People were like OMFG BLASHEMY, but hell it wasn’t into well into my teens when I found out they were mechanical. I mean, we have mutants that can blast things with various parts of their bodies, and we are cool with that. And while Peter is not a mutant, he did mutate into having his powers…

          • Thomas Stockel

            I think it goes to Parker’s nature, that he is a scientist and adventurer. A child prodigy, really, potentially rivaling Stark in cleverness (Seriously, you create web shooters at age sixteen. That’s damn impressive). So taking away the web shooters takes away a fundamental part of what Spider Man is, and replacing them with organic shooters just isn’t the same.

          • Jay_Bay

            A very valid point, it truly is. I just didn’t understand why people were losing their shit over it…unless, as you said, the movies didn’t have anything much to reflect Parker scientific nature. I guess you take away one, you have to balance it out somewhere else.

        • Chefe O’Hara

          Sorry for coming late in this discussion. My problem with Peter’s mechanical web shooters is that there isn’t a way to hide them under a tight spandex costume. The way they were designed and always shown in the comics, they would form a lump at his wrists. But that’s always conveniently forgotten by any artist.

          Say what you want, but the “clone” Spider-Man (Ben Reilly/ex-Scarlet Spider) costume was the only way they got those things correct.

          • $36060516

            If ya wanna go there: how can he cling to walls while wearing gloves and boots?

          • Chefe O’Hara

            Well… I gave the heavvy thinking a 10-year old can do, and imagined that, since the spider injected radiation in his body it made him develop electromagnectic abilities that simulated some of a spider’s power. So, he generated a magnectic field which allowed him to stick to any surface, not only metallic ones, and could extend it beyond the surface of his feet and hands. This would allow the use of gloves and boots, a thing every hero with secret identity should do! (How did they never got Superman’s fingerprints and compared them with everyone at the Daily Planet, since he hangs out with all of its staff?)

            Yes, I took time to figure out an explanation for a ficcional character’s powers. I really am a fanboy! It’s surprising I got married (to a fangirl) and had kids!

            By the way, I remember reading, in an ooold issue of a Brazilian science magazine (“Superinteressante”), an article about “fiction X science” wondering about how several devices and powers worked; they said Spidey’s sticking powers couldn’t come from the same suction pads at the arthropods’ paws, since for them support his weight they should cover a surface thrice bigger than his hands and feet.

  • Eliot Littlejohn

    hi sybil i agreed with your other video about dc comics. I dont like these movie changes like for instance in man of steel . Is jimmy olsen any more interesting or a better character because he has a vagina now. No hes not kate maras white michael b jordans black besides being a unnecessary change its a pretty big elephant in the room.

    • CaptainCalvinCat

      Why?

      I mean – if Sue Storm is caucasian and Johnny is not, that leaves you with a couple of explanations, that are not that necessary to the plot.
      A) One of those two is adopted.
      B) One kid is from one marriage, the other – well, from another.
      Sometimes, it is really simple.

      And frankly: I don’t care. I would not care if Batman was asian, if Wondy would be african or if Supes would have really pink skin – because: he’s an alien, and not just an alien in the sense of being “a stranger”, but an alien in the sense of being from another planet, with a whole new set of rules of how extraterrestrial-humanoid-physiology and biology could look like.
      I’m reading “The death of superman” right now, because it has been re-released in Germany and I wanted to read that and – in there Supergirl is a shape-shifter.

      That could be applicable for supes, too. In kryptonian-form he could be running around in pink, green or red skin – and when he is metamorphed to Clark, again, he could be asian, african-american, latin-american or caucasian.

      Again: quite frankly – I don’t care which skin-colour the hero of the movie has or how big the breasts of the heroine are. I want to be entertained, I want to have fun.

  • Nasty In The Pasty

    Why is it racist to complain that two characters who are supposed to be SIBLINGS are cast with actors of different races?

    • Muthsarah

      It’s not like divorces, re-marriages, or adoptions are remotely uncommon these days, or children born out of wedlock, for that matter. But going by the outrage, it would seem lots of people out there are either A) assuming the film is going to gloss it all over, as if to assume the fans are too dumb to notice or (more likely, IMHO) B) just reacting against “political correctness” in general, assuming that the – (is en-blackening a offensive word to anybody?)* – of Johnny Storm is somehow sacrilegious.

      The film could easily take twenty seconds to set up their backstory as step-siblings, and all is explained. In fact, given the controversy, I’d be surprised if the filmmakers didn’t throw in something like that in the first ten minutes.

      * – Seriously, IS there a specific word that covers this?

      • Cristiona

        In a world where people will complain that Superman’s spit curl rotates the wrong way, it’s not too surprising to see people upset about full blood brother and sister becoming step siblings or adopted.

      • maarvarq

        Why not go whole hog and cast Sue as black too? No back story contortions required at all then.

        • Muthsarah

          One black person in a movie is token diversity. More than one black person is a Tyler Perry movie. I don’t support such an outlook, but I expect it from Hollywood nonetheless. Making Sue black as well won’t change any Hollywood calculation for the “better” (as in assumptions of financial lucrativeness). Two black people, out of four, would make the movie “too black”. And it’s not like there wouldn’t be plenty of complaining about that too.

          Seriously, a mixed race step-family is not that out-there. If audiences aren’t ready to accept it, then they’re overdue for a visit with reality.

        • Solkir

          I feel like if they did that, the tokenness of the black characters would be even more obvious. “We cast a black actor to play Johnny, so now we need to find another one to play Sue.” Then you actually ARE casting someone for no other reason than to fill a quota, instead of who they think would be the best in the part.

    • Solkir

      Well, I’m white and my sister is hispanic. It’s a thing that happens.

  • Alexa

    Have no problem with Michael B. Jordan as the The Human Torch, just sad that they’re using the Ultimate Universe as their basis for the film. I’m not even that big of a fan of Marvel and I know that the Marvel Ultimate universe sucks.

    Because seriously Marvel, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch as both siblings and lovers. Yeah gross 😛

    • Solkir

      The Ultimate universe is actually pretty cool, Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum notwithstanding. The Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch thing was actually one of the more interesting parts of the original Ultimates run. Unfortunately in Ultimates 3 it became the focus of the entire story rather than something that was just heavily implied.

      • Alexa

        Well I only heard about it from Linkara, and saw it adapted into animated form and well the first movie was okay, but the second was well pretty terrible. I don’t know it seems like the Ultimate Universe is very angsty and overly dark just for the sake of it. Again I don’t really read Marvel but if I started it wouldn’t be the Ultimate Universe.

        • Thomas Stockel

          A lot of the problems with the Nu52 relaunch could be seen on the Ultimate universe in that the creators seemed to think readers wanted grim and dark, with miserable characters. Things were taken to nineties levels of Extreeeeeeme and every comic other than Ultimate Spider Man were full of raging douchebags. There is a reason why Ultimate Spider Man is the only Ultimate comic that had staying power.

          Mark Millar was one of the architects, I hated his take on Thor, Captain America and Iron Man. He turned Bruce Banner into a pathetic, unsympathetic dweeb and Betty in a bi…jerk. And if I recall he co-wrote Ultimate Fantastic Four, which gave us goat-foot Doctor Doom. Oh, and of course The FF had to be kids; teenagers would never, ever read comics about Old People! I’m surprised he didn’t try and turn Tony Stark into a kid. Oh, that’s right; because then Stark wouldn’t have been able to drink, and Millar loved him some Stupid Drunk Iron Man.

          I won’t deny Ultimates 1 & 2 were successes, but I got off the bus when Hank Pym decided to spray his wife Janet with Raid and then sicced a bunch of ants on her. Subtle Mark Millar ain’t.

          • Solkir

            The difference being that the Ultimate universe was always meant as an alternate interpretation of old characters. Much like an Elsworlds tale or those “What If?” storied that they used to do. Things were different but unlilke DC, they didn’t say “This is the new definitive universe, we’re done with that old thing. It was stupid and you’re stupid for liking it.” I always appreciate when companies re-imagine characters and take them in new directions. Even if it doesn’t work, I’m happy that they at least tried something outside the status quo.

          • Alexa

            Well I’ll give credit to them for not making the Ultimate Universe the only universe. We DC fans don’t have such a luxury >:(

          • Thomas Stockel

            Preach on, Alexa. Over the past two years I’ve dropped one title after another. The only DC title I am buying is Kurt Busiek’s Astro City and that takes place in it’s own universe.

            By the way, I love your icon. 🙂

          • Alexa

            I’ve heard of Astro City and it sounds really good, will get my hands on it eventually. Thanks for the comment about my icon, Kate Bush is pretty amazing, the album The Dreaming especially 🙂

          • Thomas Stockel

            It truly is, although for me Hounds of Love is my fav. 🙂

            As for Astro City, Busiek has released so many different mini series and specials over the years it can be a little confusing. Life In The Big City is the first mini series, if you want to start with the very beginning. Although I think if you just wanted to start with this series you could easily jump on board. I think Busiek does a good job of writing his various series so a reader doesn’t have to read the entire catalog.

          • $36060516

            I didn’t read it, but the Ultimate line actually did give us Tony Stark as a kid! There were two “Ultimate Iron Man” mini-series written by Orson Scott Card about Tony Stark as a kid building Iron Man suits. Apparently according to Orson, Tony was made a genius in the womb due to radiation or some shit but the side-effect was that he had very sensitive skin so he needed to make armor for himself.

          • Thomas Stockel

            Yeah, I remember those mini series and I didn’t read them for that exact reason. Card made Stark into a mutant and then he gave him a reason for being an alcoholic other than, you know, Stark being a guy with impulse problems. We were now supposed to feel sorry for Stark, that his alcoholism was due to his needing a pain killer. I think Card is kind of over rated as a writer, really.

    • $36060516

      The first co-writer of “Ultimate Fantastic Four” was Mark Millar, and 20th Century Fox has made him the main creative consultant on all of their Marvel movies, so it’s not surprising he’d push them in the direction of his shit.

  • doc

    Why so serious?

  • So let’s look back at a pair of castings. I was struck by the reaction of two different blockbusters (well supposed to be blockbusters) this summer: Man of Steel and The Lone Ranger. Why? Because of the political backlash to the casting. Specifically Johnny Depp (a white guy) being cast as Tonto and Lawrence Fishburne (a black guy) as Perry White. There was backlash against both. Now I don’t have specific example but my impression is that there is marked inconsistency in the reaction to these castings.

    The same people I heard loathing the Johnny Depp casting were also telling people to lighten up (ironically) about the Lawrence Fishburne. And the same people really upset about changing the Perry White character were defending the Tonto change. Or both. Or neither. What the hell?

    So I am trying to understand what’s right and what’s wrong here. Only thing I’m sure about is the answer isn’t so black and white. (See what I did there?)

    First off I have a very color blind mentality. So in most cases, I don’t believe any character’s skin color should define him as a person. That being said, could you really tell the story of Roots with an all white cast? Of course not. But is Perry White (last name notwithstanding) really defined by his skin color? I don’t think so.

    But you say, he was originally conceived as a white guy, are we going to change Superman to a black guy? Well there actually was a story of a racially diverse Justice League in a different universe where a black Superman was in charge. He was not the exact same character just changed to black, he was unique with his own back-story, as I recall. The problem for me was the story came off as pandering to make white writers feel better about themselves.

    And that’s really the crux of the problem in my opinion. I don’t have a problem with different actors of different races playing characters outside their race IF they are the best guy (or gal) for the job. But there is also a pandering ridiculousness that comes from the change for politically correct sake, and that’s where I part company from the casting changes.

    So for these two castings, I really didn’t have an issue with either of them. I like Fishburne and I think he lent a lot of credibility to the part. As I said, I don’t believe Perry was really defined by being white.

    Tonto is a somewhat different matter as we are talking a place and time that the American Indian was a distinct culture and race (and still is but obviously more so at that time.) But Depp is a pretty eclectic actor and really… does anyone believe that there weren’t a hundred talks about it and a pretty deep concern about offending the Native Americans of today? Do you really think they weren’t aware that there might be some backlash? This thing was 200 million dollars or more. What actor are you going to take a chance on, an unknown or a proven money maker like Depp? Especially considering that the movie even with Depp was STILL a huge flop. Without his name on the poster, it wouldn’t have gotten half of the people in the door that it did.

    Also recall that Gore Verbinski, the director, had a long and successful history with Depp between Rango and the first three pirates movies. To attribute simple racism to their motives is just simple minded.

    There’s also history to consider as long standing icons such as most superheroes are almost always white with minorities really not breaking through until the 70’s. So when the race of these long standing characters are changed, I think sometimes whites feel a little threatened that their heritage and much beloved stories are being taken away. I don’t think that’s such a crazy argument as it’s the same one that was used against Depp playing Tonto.

    The flip side says that so many of these characters are so white and that minorities were so underrepresented they feel like they have no part in so much of pop-culture today. Also a valid argument but if casting a white actor for a minority character is wrong, why isn’t the reverse true?

    Then there is the idea of pushing the envelope a little. Why not play with tried and true tropes a bit? The Man of Steel movie didn’t make the other Superman movies go away (though I wished it would have maybe blipped Superman IV out of existence). Changing perceptions and playing with the characters is a way of making them fresh. I do however think that simply changing the skin color is a lazy and superficial way to do it. If you really want to push the envelope, make a story about black KKK members. Or an all white slave cast. Really show the idiocy and ravages of racism instead of pandering to politically correct cocktail parties attendees.

    Here’s the double-edged sword questions: If Perry White is not defined by his skin color, what difference does it make who he’s played by? If Fishburne was the best actor for the part, let him play it. BUT if his skin color play no part in the story, why bother to change it other than to create controversy? What does it add to the story being told? Both are valid questions. And honestly, I have no answer on this one. I think that being offended by one while lauding the other is crass hypocrisy, no matter which way you go.

    I have adopted kids and they are of mixed race. So the Johnny Storm thing really doesn’t bother me. In fact I hope my kids see it and see that they are getting a little representation in media. But again, is it because he’s the best guy for the part or is it to get comic book fans ginned up and talking about it? I really hope it isn’t that cynical.

    All I do know is I still long for the day when no one gives a shit.

    • I don’t know what point you are trying to make.

  • (I wrote this on the Youtube page, but I am going to post it over here because people are actually talking on this end.)

    Making a white guy Black Panther would be just like Iron Fist, a white man who finds a lost super science civilization and they train him to be their ultimate warrior and leader.
    I am actually more surprised that they didn’t just make Reed Richards the black actor, having the hot-head dumbass of the team be the only black strikes me as two steps forward one step back. It is not like any of the actors they cast scream, “oh, yeah, I can totally see that.”

    I also find it very ironic that the Fantastic Four is now 25% non-white, which makes them more diverse than the X-Men: First Class which is nothing but white guys (one of which has turned into a blue Tony the Tiger), all of the minority characters up to and including the Jewish guy having joined the violent power group. The comic that is a metaphor for diversity and is the most diverse in the comics is now less diverse than the whitest of all comics’ movie adaptation.

    • Thomas Stockel

      Hey, wait a minute! Darwin is black…

      …Oh. Right.

    • Adam Bujas

      I agree with the idea that Reed should have been the one portrayed by a black actor, if anyone. They could play up the comparison to Neil Degrasse Tyson, who is currently enjoying a lot of celebrity for being the next Carl Sagan.

      Oh, but then there’s that spectre of miscegenation that would crop up if Reed tries to romance Sue. Guess you just can’t win. :T

      • Solkir

        Huh. In retrospect that’s actually a way cooler idea.

        • Arakasi_99

          I can easily see Chiwetel Ejiofor playing Reed Richards, though I would prefer he had a role in the main Avengers continuity. I’m just not sure what would be the best role for him.

  • Pratchettgaiman

    Plus, they could totally be half-siblings, with Johnny having one white and one black parent (I think Michael B. Jordan could plausibly play a biracial character easily enough). That way, still blood related (although they might as well make them stepsiblings or adoptive siblings, or even two unrelated people with the last name of Storm).

    • Muthsarah

      I just gotta wonder where that line is. That line where the actor is assumed to be the LITERAL, physical depiction of the character they’re portraying. I saw an opera, set in Germany, in the 16th century (Faust), where both the male and female leads were portrayed by black singers/actors. Not a big deal. The show went on, somehow. Hell, I’ve seen plenty of Shakespeare stuff with non-white actors acting in medieval/renaissance European settings; no need to explain why it is that might not make sense in a certain sense. It wasn’t relevant. It was accepted as irrelevant. But even in movies where you have a mother and daughter characters, and both of them are portrayed by white actresses, the complaint is sometimes raised that “They totally don’t look like each other!” Why is that (seemingly) acceptable on the stage, but not on the screen?

      The idea that Michael B. Jordan’s character should/could be assumed to be half-white, because his sister is [wholly]-white, requires an explanation, baffles me. ADOPTION. STEP-SIBLINGS. Isn’t that enough? If not, why not?

  • doc

    It’s a fracking movie about the Fantastic Four. Who was clamoring for this? Who still reads the comic? The movie will probably suck anyway regardless who is cast in what role. The “fans” need to stop reading into something that really doesn’t matter. The money being wasted on this goofy shit should have gone into Chronicle 2, a movie people actually want to see.

  • Jerkyoz

    It isn’t racist just because you don’t have a ‘minority’ actor / character… you people really need to grow the up. This is a problem that simply doesn’t exist you politically correct asses.

    • MichaelANovelli

      Historical preference for casting white actors in non-race specific parts? Actually, yes, this is a verifiable fact…

      • $36060516

        And even in racially specific parts (see “The Last Airbender”).

    • Magdalen

      Oh shit, is racism over? Hey did you hear that guys?! RACISM IS OVER! Wooo!

      • Jay_Bay

        Oh man, I better get my confetti out. I can drive through that part of Georgia to visit my uncle without taking the longer route around it. Thank the Gods….

    • Solkir

      So did you actually watch the video? Because you’re talking about things that I didn’t actually bring up.

  • madmanoreo

    I kind of just skimmed through the comments, did anyone point out the big kerfuffle when ultimate spider-man died and was replaced by black/hispanic kid and the lack of said kerfuffle when earth classic spider-man died?

    • Thomas Stockel

      Well, I’m utterly indifferent to USM so I didn’t care. And who cares when a hero dies in comics these days? It’s only a matter of time before they come back. No one I know thought Peter dying in mainstream Spider Man was going to be dead for very long. In fact, he’s due to return in a few months, before the movie comes out.

      Now if they had tried the same thing with Mainstream Spider Man, maybe I would have sat up and taken notice. But that would have been taking a massive risk.

  • Jay_Bay

    Honestly, my opinion on all this…who da fuck cares.

    The castings, the backlash, the counter backlash….all of it. Who da fuck cares? His casting (and all the other castings for that matter) is all stunt ones. Stunt ones set to try to wash the poisonous funk that the previous 2 movies (and the characters themselves somewhat) have on them. Hell, they are not using the mainstream ones for that exact reason. All to try to give a company a superheroic cash cow because AVENGERS IS AWESOME.

    Back to the casting, look at all the people cast as the 4. Each one has something about them that seems to buck against the characters they are tap to play. Trust me, if it isn’t the Jordan’s casting we would bitch about the others (and some do now, actually). The company did this on purpose, why? To get people to talk about it. As the saying goes, any publicity is good publicity. And any way for people to talk about a set of heroes as (publicly) bland as the Fantastic 4 is a major win for them.

    So the movie will be made, and we will talk about it. And the movie will come out and went, and we will mention it. And then it will fall into the trash, fade into the memory ether. And we will never care about it again. The point of all my yapping: it’s no point to have lengthy conversations about this issue…no, there is. I meant to say, in pertaining to this movie, this conversation is moot.

  • The stupid thing about the ‘true to a character’s origins’ argument is that the characters as they are today are so far from their origins that it is insignificant. Batman originally shot and killed people, Superman was known as ‘the thorn in the side of the establishment’ and kicked down slums in his spare time. We may as well claim that the movie sucks because it’s not staying true to the silver age.

    • The Fantastic four are arguably more consistent than those instances, and again, race has little to do with the characters or the actions that they take in regards to adventuring.

      So the idea of Human Torch being white is the same as Batman using a gun is a false dichotomy.

      • kamenriderwizard

        I thought batsy was a paranoid prick with abandonment issues that liked little boys.

    • kamenriderwizard

      Like people who hated man on steel because it wasn’t true to the comics(before the new 52). Or the reeve movies. I think I’m the only one who likes the original superman who threatened people to get answers and the dick/jock version in the 52.

  • Sergeant343

    Even though I think they should keep the race the same (along with sexual identity, gender identity, etc) and instead create new properties, but if it happens it is not that big of a deal to me. I think something like this can go beyond comics and into film franchises like the Bond series whose fans scoff at the idea of a black Bond.

  • Solkir

    Oh wow, I just realized that I accidentally cut out a line quoting someone for saying “If a black man can play The Human Torch, a white man can play Black Panther.” I guess it works fine without, but I really should have noticed that in my final check.

  • nejiyellow

    I’m not a comic book fan, so i don’t really care. But I’ll put in my two cents. As you say, there all characters that were created in a time when the country was far more racist. So the solution, to me, seems simple. Create new characters in comic books. Afterall, ones you mentioned like the black panther came later in the 80’s. So why not? The answer is simple. No one would care. And that’s the main issue with the modern comic industry in marvel and dc. They are 100% incapable of creating anything new that anyone(and I mean ANYONE outside the comic book fandom) would give two shits about and are stuck reusing the same characters forever. I still think a large part in that(not the only factor, but still, a big part) are the loss of creator rights. The fact that the characters are owned by marvel and dc and even if you try to create a new character or story, if its with them, they own it. Why would you personally give a fuck as a author or artist? As a creative medium, IMO, comic books are closer to books than TV or movies. They are more personal and author ownership of the character is a big part of that. That does also mean, btw, that these stories and charaters would need to end. However, certain british comics(most noticable dredd) have gotten the marvel/dc system to work. However, there are other comics that more like what I just described. The other issue, in the US, is how mainstream society views them. Which is to say, “super heros=comics”. Comic books started with super heroes, but as a creative medium, they should have been able to expand someday. But they never did, and it kills creativity when you’re stuck with one genre.

    I mean honestly, I enjoyed batman a great deal, though it was because of the animated TV shows(animation being a more better match for comics than live action IMO.) I never read his comics. However, if they wanted to make him black, I’d rather they just retire the character. Why? Not because I’m racist, but because it would symbolize that they had ran out of ideas. Honestly, I think they done better much everything they can with him anyway(both ends of the spectrum campy and serious.) But yeah just making him black, not change anything else, and act like its a big twist on the character would be stupid. As you said, those other super heroes, the race did matter. Batman may have been white “because he had to be”, but that’s also a assumption on your part. It’s a what-if, there’s no way to know what race he would have been if the creator’s had not been living in the 1930’s-50’s. Same goes for the rest of them.

    Actually, my favorite black superhero was from the justice league animated series. Namely John Stewart, the green lantern. And from what I understand, he was black in the comics, they just picked a later holder of the green lantern powers. I wish he would be in the movies. And so the solution for batman would be to have a new batman, who’s a black character. Not bruce wayne. And that’s when you run into the brick wall. You could never get people to accept a new person as a batman, white or black. Bruce wayne is batman, and he’s white. As you say, no one gives a fuck about fanatastic four. I would say no one gave a fuck about heimdall, and very, VERY few gave a fuck about nick fury. Batman or Superman? Not even close. And the concept of a new character being created who could become, over time, more popular than them who was black? It’s a great thought, but a fallacy. It is impossible. And that’s the real core issue here that you have no interest in seeing. Like all comic book fans, you don’t care about comics as a creative medium(which has nothing to do with them getting movie’s btw.) You just care about super hero movies. And maintaining the status quo in the amercian comic industry as to not upset that.

  • not impressed

    My guess is that most regular comic readers out there today (there are so few of us now that grown men do important things like Flappy Bird with their free time) just shook their head at the news and moved on. But the fucktard in the dress thinks that comments from the fringe of any issue means that comics fans are racist. Were we racist when we complained that super-whitey Ben Affleck was possibly going to spoil Batman for a decade’s worth of movies the way he ruined Daredevil (another film in which a white character was played by a black actor…you know, Kingpin)? I happen to watch more than my fair share of movies, and I’ve never heard of this Michael B. Jordan. One of my friends who has seen something he was in said he has all the acting skills of Will Smith’s son…so there is that to complain about. The powers that be at this website should take a moment to think about if this video is really helping this website, because the crossover between comic nerds, movie nerds, and gaming nerds is pretty clear. The intersex creature in the purple dress is really pointing the finger at comic readers for universal social issues, he/she makes some unjustified statements, and this vid just isn’t really in the same category as the fun, irreverent vids normally seen on this site. It sticks out like the black mother superior in the recent re-make of The Sound of Music.

    • Solkir

      Oh man, If I had applied to to TGWTG in its infancy, I would have totally gone with “That Fucktard in the Dress” instead of Sybil or Solkir.

    • You do realize that people who are specifically saying the character can’t be black are doing so from a mental space of racism right?

      When you say, “Race is the reason I think this” that is racism.

      That is what is being complained about.

      Also, use the enter key occasionally, it is hard to read a block of text.

    • I like how your passionate argument that you’re not a bigot includes the phrase “intersex creature”.

      • MichaelANovelli

        “Intersex Creature” sounds like one of those movies Count Jackula would review. ^_^

        • Solkir

          I would watch the fuck out of Intersex Creature: Shot in 3D

          • kamenriderwizard

            it sounds like something on mystery science.

      • Jay_Bay

        Intersex…Creature? You know, if someone gonna be a prick, be straight out with it. Watching an asshole trying to be politically correct is so funny.

    • $36060516

      “this vid just isn’t really in the same category as the fun, irreverent vids normally seen on this site”

      Unlike your fun, irreverent comments insulting and dehumanizing the maker of this video. I had so much fun reading this post and imagining the pathetic person sitting there writing such horseshit.

      • Solkir

        I like to imagine that he joined Disqus specifically to call me an idiot and throw absurd strawman arguments at me. It’s cute

  • TheRedWorm

    Heh. Make both the Storm parents black, and Sue a person with albinism.

    • Solkir

      It’s an interesting point that a lot of people assume that Johnny will be the one who’s adopted. Could go either way.

  • “Hey, Solkir: Why so butthurt?” xD

    • Solkir

      Am I? I think you need to watch the video again. Or at all.

      • I never comment on videos I haven’t watched. I’m also not the one who published a whole video about one small complaint some few people had about the casting.

        • Solkir

          To be fair, it’s a pretty large complaint that a lot of people bring up every few months. I didn’t just make a video about a thing I saw one guy say. Also, I wasn’t aware that drawing attention to a real problem that’s harming the industry constituted “butthurt”

          • But how large can the complaint be if you don’t see anyone outside the Internet bring it up? AFAIK it’s a very localized complaint bound to a certain type of comic book fans. Or in other words: You might see this complaint here but not in the Chicago Sun Times.

          • Solkir

            That’s a really dumb way to gauge the severity of an issue. The mainstream media barely understands what the internet is, let alone what people are saying on it.

          • You don’t seem to understand the internet either. On the Internet complaints do not automatically translate to issues. If there was something that important going on the mainstream media and the public would have already picked up on it. As far as I can see nobody cares about the Fantastic 4 movie in the first place, let alone cares about the casting except of select few.

            You however may believe what you want to believe. I’m out.

          • Solkir

            It’s not just about the fantastic four. This is a thing that keeps happening over and over, and is a symptom of an easily observable societal issue. Maybe you’re happy to sit there and pretend it isn’t real, but I’m not. Then again, I’m not the one who’s waiting for the media to acknowledge how racist it is before I point out how racist it is.

            Besides, they’re too busy reporting on what soda the president is drinking to do an expose on anything as important as how people’s latent racial prejudices negatively affect society.

          • TheCrazyFish

            Yeah. Some guy who’s mildly annoyed at them randomly changing the race of a character in a comic book movie is destroying society. Grow up. There are REAL problems out there, and this isn’t one of them.

          • Solkir

            Wah! Racism and representation aren’t important because there are things happening that are worse! Next time you comment, maybe pay attention to what I’m talking about instead of parroting fallacies at me.

          • TheCrazyFish

            You want to talk about racism? Let’s talk about inner city black kids struggling to stay straight but drawn down the bad path because their community is full of gangs and drugs. Let’s talk about greedy corporations who keep them down so they’re easy to exploit. Let’s talk about police who will let a murderer go because he has white skin but beat a shoplifter to death because he has black skin.

            Racism is important. A black guy playing Johnny Storm in a movie is not.

          • Solkir

            And if you’d actually been paying attention to my video and my point, you’d see that I’m saying that the outrage is indicative of a greater issue of racism in our society. But instead you chose to take the video at face value and oversimplify my argument to the point of ridiculousness.

          • TheCrazyFish

            But it’s really not indicative of that at all. It’s a stunt casting trick designed to sell extra movie tickets. The controversy is exactly what the casting department was going for.

          • Hakun Foochas

            Hollywood making Johnny Storm black as a revenue gimmick and the ensuing controversy that followed should not happen in a truly enlightened society. That there are people in this country who are getting up in arms over it is a symptom of a much larger problem and THAT is the point of this entire video.

            Unless the character in question is/was an actual living human being or their backstory requires them to be a certain ethnicity (such as with Static or Black Panther), people shouldn’t be getting their panties in a wad. While we may be used to seeing them a certain way, their skin color is irrelevant to the plot and should be seen as artistic license and nothing more. By raising a ruckus about a fictional character going from white to black, white people are showing their insecurity over changes in the status quo which ties into why racism is still so prevalent. Generally, white Americans are fine with doing away with racism as long as it doesn’t affect their White Privilege. If you don’t know what that is, look it up. It’s one of the main reasons why this “Land of the Free” is so Anglo-obsessed and why so many white people are blind to the bullshit people of color have to deal with.

          • Yes white privilege… I was wondering when somebody was going to bring up this piece of pseudo intellectualism! xD

          • TheCrazyFish

            I’ve found that if you have to spend a lot of time thinking to figure out whether or not something is racist – it’s not.

  • TheCrazyFish

    Instead of pointing out all the numerous reasons why everything about this
    is retarded, allow me to instead list off a few ACTUALLY BLACK
    superheroes who I would like to see appear on the big screen instead of
    this crap:

    Black Panther
    Bronze Tiger
    Cyborg
    Falcon (Though he apparently will be appearing in Captain America 2, at least.)
    Luke Cage (Seriously, somebody make a damn Luke Cage movie already!)
    Static
    Steel (Only this time make his movie not suck.)
    Vixen (Who is also a woman, it’s a minority double whammy!)

    • Solkir

      Thanks for the view

      • TheCrazyFish

        Do you have any idea how bitchy saying that makes you look?

        • Solkir

          Is it more or less than calling someone “retarded?”

          • TheCrazyFish

            Let’s see…

            1. You have no counter to the argument so you make a bitchy one-liner post about how people are giving you hits.

            2. You have no defense for number 1, so you twist words around to make a legitimate argument look like a personal attack, even though anyone with eyes could easily see that I called the video retarded, not you. I would never insult retarded people by comparing them to you.

          • Solkir

            You didn’t make an argument. You just called me retarded.

          • TheCrazyFish

            You’re not helping your case.

    • TheCrazyFish

      Also, just found out after posting this – Luke Cage is getting a television series, so there’s that too.

    • Greatbudda

      I would add John Stewart to that list. After the disappointment of the Green Lantern movie not mentioning him at all I hope maybe there’s a chance that we’ll someday see him or any of the others on screen.

      • TheCrazyFish

        I dunno. To me, Jon Stewart is the most boring of the Green Lanterns, but it could be cool.

        Also, I’m pretty sure The Spectre was black at one point, and a Spectre movie would be awesome.

  • kamenriderwizard

    It shouldn’t matter say if superman or batman were played by actors who aren’t white, but you know damn well most people wouldn’t like it. Never mind. We have Steel and Black Panther. I’m sure someone will correct me that Panther is nothing like Batsy. Oh well.

  • Sand Ripper

    I think that the majority of the people who don’t like the casting of Jordan are annoyed because Johnny and Sue Storm are supposed to be brother and sister.

    • Solkir

      Wow. What an astute observation that no one on this page has brought up yet.

      • Sand Ripper

        Sarcasm?

        I couldn’t be bothered to read 100+ comments. Or watch most of the video.

        • TheRedWorm

          I can understand not wanting to wade through all 100+ comments, but why would you comment had you not even bothered to watch the video?

  • TheCrazyFish

    To expand on something I said before, I think the bigger issue, in terms of racism, is the fact that they felt the need to turn a white character black in the first place. Let me put it like this…

    Let’s look at Static. He’s an inner city black kid who has a lot of potential and is struggling to stay straight and make his father proud, but he has to contend with the negative influence of the gangs that run his community, the manipulative corporate assholes who don’t care how many poor people they kill in their quest for more money, and the contempt of a still overwhelmingly racist society. Even when he gets superpowers those things don’t go away. He still has to fight against them. Static’s blackness MEANS something, because it brings with it an awareness of social ills, and makes it clear that with perseverance it is possible to rise above them. It’s the same with a lot of other black characters.

    This, on the other hand, is just stunt casting. Black Johnny Storm’s blackness doesn’t MEAN anything. He’s still the same white guy with the same white backstory and the same white personality, but his face is black. Why? Because they don’t actually give a shit. They just think the weirdness of a black Johnny Storm and a female Dr. Doom might put a few more butts in the seats.

    So you tell me, who’s racist here? Me, for saying that this is stupid? Or Hollywood, for believing that the only way to make a black guy relatable is to make him basically a white guy, but just LOOK black?

  • Killian Mitchell

    There’s a lot of negativity and awful shit going on in the comments for this video so I’d just like to say that I enjoyed this video and I enjoy most (okay, all) of your videos. Keep up the good work!

    • Thomas Stockel

      Now hold up. This is the internet, man. We have certain standards. I don’t know where you get off trying to throw water on a flamewar but that sort of civilized behavior has no place here.

      In all honesty, well said. I don’t know where this negativity is coming from, either.

      • Killian Mitchell

        Oh my god. Someone said a nice thing about my comment on the internet. I am shocked. 🙂 Or in other words, hello, fellow civilized person.

  • TBTabby

    But nobody cared when Kingpin was played by a black man in the Daredevil movie. That could just be because that movie was lame, but I find it suspicious that people didn’t mind when a black man played the villain.

    • Samuel Kelly

      Not true, people flipped out completely and raved how awful the casting was with no real point to make beyond a descriptive point was wrong. This surprised me as there’s nothing about Kingpin that required him to be white and I honestly couldn’t this of an actor who fit the physical needs of the character who had the acting chops to pull it off like Michael Clarke Duncan.

  • Jo B.

    What, can’t they pull something like how i met your mother did when they introduced Barney’s brother? I know it ridiculous, but still why not use something like that to explain a difference if people are going to care so much about a tiny friggen detail?

  • Nick Zbu

    I’ll still see the movie (big Fantastic Four fan here), but I’m curious why they didn’t make Reed black. Wouldn’t having the head of the group who is one of the smartest and successful scientists in the world be a better choice than the youngest one of the group? Without seeing the movie, it seems like Fox is using race to pull in a wider group of people to see the film instead of doing anything creative with the character.

    Then again, this is assuming a lot since the movie hasn’t been released yet. I did not know there was going to be a female Dr. Doom, however. That will be very interesting indeed!

  • Simon

    Black, white, hispanic; the movie’s still gonna be shit.

  • Quaz

    Still good doing vids, keep it up!
    if Johnny is portrayed as (his typical) being a hot head who tends go a bit overboard, but without the charm because of poor writhing or directing, (and I’m trying really hard to not to get to unPC here) the typically “of course Hollywood picked a person of color to be the one thuggish character, or silly sidekick of the team.” might come out to play and all this is all for naught. Sigh. So far the avenger tie-ins have not been that bad for scripting, but its a horrible possibility.

    Here’s hoping for better writing so we get not just a black Johnny Storm, but a well written one (along with the rest of the cast). I kind of hope he ends up being the one to lead the fantastic family into becoming heroes, now that be different!

    Like mentioned in some other posts here, I’d run to the theatre to see Static, or Panther on the big screen if done right; hell the Netflix possibility of Heroes for Hire has me giddy.Wwe need more leads and not just background or side characters. I guess despite the horrible of a mess of movie as it was, at least Catwoman with Halle Berry tried.
    Hell, I’d even give up my favorite Jen (She-Hulk) to be Black, Latino, Asian, whatever as long as I got her on the screen as a lead…though I guess with green it wouldn’t matter… ah man can dream!

    Oh, that nasty blackface clip you played, I’m still not convinced that’s more offensive than Skids and Mudflap from Bayformers….hmmm maybe a tie.

    • TheCrazyFish

      You got a point about She-Hulk – once she turns green her original skin color kinda doesn’t matter. It’s sorta the same issue as Spawn. He’s a black guy and always was, but most people don’t know that because his outfit covers his entire body including his face.

  • Ricardo Augusto

    Whoever choose to portrait Johnny Storm as a Black Dude can burn in hell. African Americans and black people in general don’t have the need to stolen original characters in order to make a stand in the comic book community, they already have characters of their own ethnicity that had their places among the legendary heroes by their own merit through the past decades.

  • KevlarNinja

    While I would like the characters to be as close to the comics as you could get them (which is where the other movies went wrong), if you told me the final pick for Johnny Storm was between a black guy who was well suited for the role and a white guy who wasn’t, I would suggest the former. Talent before race, after all.

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