Top 4 reasons Captain America should be gay

So by now, most of you have had a chance to see Captain America: The Winter Soldier, a great movie, as everyone can agree. While it doesn’t quite reach the heights of Iron Man 3, due mostly to the script not being nearly as clever (for one thing, it’s a mystery story where the mystery is painfully easy to solve), it definitely continues Marvel’s streak of every post-Avengers movie being a fearless game changer that one-ups its predecessor. Chris Evans continues to be the best casting decision the studio has made, the action is energetic and fun, and the story keeps to the simplistically cheesy but sincere spirit of the character. It’s just a damn fine popcorn flick. It is also, as I noticed on a second viewing, super-gay.

Not in the pejorative sense of the word, but a literal one. The film hits Fast and Furious levels of gay. It hits 300 levels of gay. It’s so gay, it makes Elsa from Frozen look straight.

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The gay subtext of the film is so blatant, I’m rather surprised I didn’t notice it sooner. Our hero is consistently chaste and seemingly uninterested in both of the women throwing themselves at him, yet instantly forms a connection with Falcon, with whom he has far more chemistry. Both men have just lost their “partners”, and Falcon spends almost every scene practically making bedroom eyes at Cap. And the movie ends with Falcon (and only Falcon) at Cap’s hospital bedside playing their song (a Marvin Gaye song, no less). This is easily the most homoerotic superhero film since Batman & Robin.

Top 4 reasons Captain America should be gay

And you know what? I’m glad. All joking aside, this film brings to mind what a shame it is that there aren’t any major gay superheroes (I mean, Marvel isn’t likely to greenlight a Northstar movie anytime soon). Cap and Falcon make a genuinely cute couple (a lot more so than Steve and Sharon, though in all fairness, she had only one scene with him), and I’m honestly a little sad that there’s no way future Captain America movies will ever fully explore the possibilities here. Even Marvel isn’t that bold.

Or maybe they are. After all, various superheroes have been known to change their race, gender, or sexual orientation in the last decade or so. It’s a natural consequence of almost every well-known superhero being a white, straight male. We’re in an age where fans are demanding diversity, and it’s a lot more effective to simply modify existing superheroes than to make new ones and hope they become popular. So just for the sake of argument, here are the top four reasons why Marvel should make Captain America a gay man:

4. No one cares about Cap’s love life.

One of the first complaints usually brought up whenever it’s suggested a formerly straight character might be rewritten as gay is “What about [insert love interest here]?” Just take the rest of the Avengers: If you turn Hulk gay, you lose Betty Ross, who’s not wildly popular, but an established part of the mythos that everyone knows. Turn Thor gay, and bye-bye Jane Foster, a formerly forgotten character who’s been made very likable by the movies. Iron Man? Being really into women is kind of one of his primary attributes. Hawkeye’s attraction to Black Widow, while not yet a factor in the movies, is a central part of his origin story in the comics.

But Cap? Has anyone ever given much of a shit who Cap is banging? I admit, I rather liked his relationship with Peggy Carter in the first movie, but she’s out of the picture now, and given the age they lived in, the idea that Cap could’ve been in the closet back then is completely plausible.

And Sharon? Is anyone really dying to see Cap hook up with the boring blonde who had two minutes of screen time in Winter Soldier? Even in the comics, I found Sharon uninteresting, as she’s just some random chick with no defining characteristics beyond being Cap’s girlfriend. Last I checked, she wasn’t any kind of fan-favorite, and the rest of Cap’s love life is filled with similarly forgettable women. The point is, nothing would be lost if Cap decided he just wasn’t into chicks.

Top 4 reasons Captain America should be gay

3. It would make him a lot less creepy.

You may have noticed that the movie failed to give the aforementioned Sharon a last name. That’s because in the comics, her last name is Carter. Yes, as in Peggy Carter. Sharon is her niece. Cap in the comics hooked up with the niece of his ex-girlfriend. Eww.

We have yet to see how the movies plan to approach this without making it seem as creepy as it is. My solution? Don’t. It now feels really out of character for a boy scout like Cap to hook up with the younger relative of his (still-living) ex. If Cap is gay, you can sidestep the issue entirely. And it’s not like you even need to get rid of her. Keep Sharon around, but write her as more of a surrogate younger sister to Cap instead of a girlfriend. She could be the Shadowcat to Cap’s Wolverine. That’s a much nicer idea than Cap being a perv who chases after the hot young niece of his ex just because she got old.

2. It makes his origin a lot more dramatic.

There’s so much storytelling potential in the whole idea of Captain America, a man from 1945 suddenly finding himself in the 21st Century, that the comics themselves haven’t even had time to deal with. Imagine if you added Steve being gay to that. Think of what that implies. Whether or not he had confronted and was comfortable with his sexuality before he was frozen, just picture a gay WWII soldier waking up now and being told (on top of everything else), “BTW, homosexuality isn’t considered a mental illness anymore. Oh, and we repealed ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’. Oh, and 17 states have legalized gay marriage.” Think of the dramatic possibilities that would offer. Imagine Steve as a man who had to hide who he was just to serve his country, suddenly being flung into a world where he doesn’t have to pretend anymore. You could tell poignant, touching stories about the tribulations of gay men in the military, stories about how far we’ve come, and how far we still have to go. Any writer worth his salt could do something great with the concept.

1. He and Falcon are just adorable.

Top 4 reasons Captain America should be gay

Seriously, the interaction between these two is the heart and soul of Winter Soldier. Falcon is a lot more than just a replacement for Bucky: he’s the inspiration for a lot of Cap’s decision making. Meeting Falcon, a fellow vet who’s still optimistic in a far more cynical world where warfare is much grayer, is what helps Cap hold onto his sense of purpose and righteousness even as things go to hell around him.

The movie is essentially The Last Temptation of Captain America, as circumstances try to force Cap to compromise his principles and he refuses to budge. Falcon takes the role of the little angel on Cap’s shoulder, with Black Widow and Nick Fury standing on the opposite shoulder as little devils. You can choose to interpret the admiration and affection on Falcon’s face in every scene as platonic if you want, but for me, I can’t help but imagine how awesome their wedding would be: Both of them in their dress blues, dancing to “Trouble Man”. You know that would be adorable.

Tag: Marvel Cinematic Universe

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  • KLLRFRST

    I remember in the 80s, Cap had a friend from his Army days named Arnold Rothstein, who was a huge ladies man back during WWII, but later came out of the closet and ran a clothing business with his boyfriend.

    Also, Sharon was originally Peggy’s younger sister, but since it now seemed a bit too implausible, Marvel retconned Sharon to be her niece instead.

    • Thomas Stockel

      By this point shouldn’t she be her grand-niece?

      And yeah, it’s still creepy. :/

      • $36060516

        not as creepy as a documentary I saw about a famous photographer who was cheating on his wife with another woman and then that other woman started dating his son (who looked just like him) instead, and the cheated-on wife had to play nice at the wedding of her son to her husband’s mistress.

    • I never really got why people find that creepy. Yeah, he is 90+, but he is still a 30 something mentally, and a god physically. And dating someone who is similiar to your ex (a relationship that ended because of circumstances not because of wanting it to end) is not a problem. Just because the new girl is related to the old one shouldn’t make a difference.

  • CaptainCalvinCat

    Hey, it’s the cute blonde from Revenge. ^^

  • J.O

    Um, i have no real issue with the article other than the fact that i don’t exactly think Steve would know about Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. Cause i’m pretty sure that was invoked in the late eighties/nineties with the clinton administration. I may be wrong, so sorry if the gripe is innaccurate.

    • I’m not sure when the actual name was coined, but since it’s inception, the US military has had a policy against recruiting gay men & women, which didn’t change until the repeal in 2011.

      • J.O

        Yeah, i remember that one. I’m just trying to remember when the actual policy was coined. Though yeah i guess my gripe was stupid since i do know of plenty of cases of gay men in the military being kicked out without actual excuses. But wasn’t DADT the first actual legal reason that was blatantly discriminatory in it’s charging?

        • MichaelANovelli

          Well, DADT ended the military actively searching for closeted homosexuals, so that was a step in the right direction, at least. Speaking from my own experience as a bisexual serviceman, anyone who was gay wasn’t exactly secretive about it, but most of the others didn’t care. Then again, most of them were lesbians, so by the clichés of the Army, that was by no means a surprise.

          • J.O

            Well that’s interesting. Alright then, i guess i’ll withdraw my one insignificant complaint. Thanks for the discussion.

          • Cristiona

            Yeah, the enlisting scene in Stripes has the recruiter asking if they’re gay.

          • MichaelANovelli

            “No, but we’re prepared to learn!”

  • Sofie Liv

    I VOTE FOR THIS TO BECOME REAL!

    I want them to take each other in each others arms, and dance under the moonlight! I want double shirtless action! And then I want the kiss!

    …. Sorry, what was we talking about?

    • Zorha

      At first I wanted Cap to lay the big one on Agent Coulson. Now all I can think of is this.

      Way to go Sofie :P

      • Sofie Liv

        Well! It’s been to damn long that Hollywood has been using occasional Lesbian action as a way to get the boys interested.

        I demand my occasional gay action in the hollywood movies! And not that really soapy bad kind of guy like in mangas where the couples could might as well have been a pair of boobless girls.

        No no! I want real manly action, all-right! Both good looking AND adorable.

        I guess I can just watch a bit more of Torchwood, but it looses a bit of its affect when Jack Harkness is basically just being a man hore hitting on any-thing that has at least one hole in it.

        • J.O

          Have you read some of the Iron man/Captain America super family stories? They can be so damn adorable and tumblr has it’s own shares of pictures. Google Super Family if you want.

    • Google image search “Steve Rogers Sam Wilson”. It’s not a movie, but it’s pretty damn adorable.

  • nejiblue

    “We’re in an age where fans are demanding diversity, and it’s a lot more effective to simply modify existing superheroes than to make new ones and hope they become popular.” I find that comment very funny. Shouldn’t a genre that’s not, well, dead be able to come up with something new every now and then while still using older characters? I’ll admit guardians of the galaxy is pretty close since no one outside the comic book fandom knows what the hell it is going in, but yeah. Maybe that’s just me considering I haven’t really cared about north amercian comic books for a long time. The comics, btw, not the various adaptions over the years. And no, I don’t really give a fuck about cap’s love life. There again, this is usually not a genre where I care too much about the romance angle anyway.

    And of course “So by now, most of you have had a chance to see Captain America: The Winter Soldier, a great movie, as everyone can agree.” because who dares question the mighty marvel god right?(which I guess would be galactus but yeah that’s right they don’t have the rights.) No, haven’t seen cap winter solider, I’ll rent it, but yeah I saw Ironman 3 in theaters and that really had to be one of the most overrated movies I’ve ever seen in my life. Sorry, just what I thought.

    • What?

    • It’s not like they aren’t trying, DC & Marvel come up with new characters all the time. You know how many of them stick around? Not a whole lot. Unfortunately, there’s no formula for making a hit character. There’s no way to know whether anyone is going to like this new hero you created specifically to make you cast more diverse. Back in the 90’s, DC created the character Steel specifically to appeal to black audience members. They marketed the shit out of that guy, convinced he was going to be a hit, he even got a movie deal. These days? Well, he’s still around here and there, but he certainly wasn’t the success DC was hoping for. Know many people who name Steel as their favorite hero nowadays? Probably not.

      • Muthsarah

        From my understanding, every comic book character who has been either given their own movie, or at least given a sizable supporting role in a new movie, is someone who has been around since at least the early 70s. Exempting SPAWN (who I suspect is newer, and whose movie came out a long time ago) and the Turtles (EDIT: and Steel, who you mentioned), are there any characters that have been around for less than 30 years who have been given their own big-budget Hollywood movie? Is Hollywood (especially recently) only going after the characters who have cultural cache going back two generations or more?

        • Usually when something newer gets adapted, it’s either really popular, (Kick-ass) or a comic that already feels more like a movie than a comic book (RED, Losers, Surrogates).

          • Muthsarah

            Kick-Ass was an actual comic? Wow…I figured it for total genre parody. Not a bad movie, by any means, but….it kinda reeked of a hipster-ish send-off. Never heard of it before the movie, never heard of anything but the sequel since.

            Fun movie, the first one, I’ll admit. But mostly because of the actors; the premise still felt ridiculous.

            But, to perhaps awkwardly re-push my original point:

            Iron Man
            Thor (and Loki)
            Captain America
            The Incredible Hulk
            Black Widow
            Nick Fury
            Hawkeye
            X-Men, all and sundry
            Spider-Man
            Superman
            Batman
            The Fantastic Four
            Green Lantern
            Green Hornet

            They’re ALL from the early 70s or before, right? Has Marvel not introduced any new characters since, ones that became big, or…what? I seriously don’t know comics history, though I’d love to know just a LIL’ bit more. Is there anything from the current Marvel batch in particular that draws on anything that was first established in the comics in the last two or three decades, or are they still focusing entirely on stuff that was established long ago?

          • FEnM

            “They’re ALL from the early 70s or before, right? Has Marvel not
            introduced any new characters since, ones that became big, or…what?”

            Well, there is this dude named Wolverine they introduced in the mid-70’s; maybe you’ve heard of him?

            Yeah, the X-Men comic has been around since the 60s, but a fair number of its more popular members were introduced later. Nightcrawler, Storm, Kitty, Rogue, Mystique…

          • Muthsarah

            I had no idea Wolverine was that new. I don’t know much about comics, but I remember seeing a cover of a comic book with him fighting The Incredible Hulk. Seemed older than that. And with the X-Men stuff (which is totally 60s, even I know that), I didn’t realize he was from a different era.

            Early 70s/Mid 70s, not a huge deal. Basic point: Are the current Hollywood films only focusing on long, long, LONG-established characters, or are they willing to make any room for the newer characters, even in supporting roles? Like the comics industry is admitting they have nothing to show for themselves over the last 30 years, and that they’re admitting they’re just mining properties from WAY back.

          • FEnM

            See, I don’t agree with this. There ARE new comic characters, but comics is a niche market, and a lot of the newer characters, even if they’re popular with comic readers, are still not well known to the general public It’s not a matter of comics not having anything new, it’s a matter of Hollywood not wanting to sink a ton of money into a movie with characters most people haven’t heard of.

          • Muthsarah

            I wasn’t making a serious statement of fact, from authority. I think I’ve been couching my comments with explicit statements regarding my general ignorance of the history (recent or otherwise) of comic books. From what I’ve gathered, every character featured in The Avengers (2012) has been around 40 years or so, and that the X-Men were mostly figures of the early 1960s.

            For the most part, you seem to be agreeing with Joshua, when he wasn’t specifically disagreeing with me.

            I can understand Hollywood not wanting to leap on the backs of newer comics figures. Everything they’ve done since at least the first X-Men movie has been to piggy-back on long-established comic brand-names. For all the praise that has been heaped upon The Avengers (2012), it was a direct continuation of a series of films based entirely off of long-established geek-culture franchise characters. Not a HUGE gamble for these producers to make. Find a project with a postive Q rating, make a movie out of it. Wash, rinse, repeat.

          • $36060516

            The reason for what you’ve noticed, which is mostly true, is that the comics industry changed. For a long time, mainstream comic book creators could only create new characters for Marvel and DC, because those companies had near-exclusive control of the news-stand/comic book rack market. And when these creators did that, they lost all rights to control their creations and when the rights to their creations were optioned by Hollywood, as with “Howard the Duck,” Marvel made money but the guy who created him didn’t. With the flowering of the comic shop market it was no longer necessary to be as big as Marvel or DC to get your comics into stores. This lead in the ’80s to some of the new talent deciding to publish themselves (“Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles” being one of the most financially successful examples) or go to smaller independent companies that would let them keep the ownership of their creations. When this really blew up was when the big star artists at Marvel left and formed Image Comics in the early ’90s, setting a much more prominent example of rejecting the Marvel/DC ownership system. From that point until now fewer and fewer comics creators have been willing to create new characters for Marvel and DC. The pattern became creators working for Marvel and DC on characters those companies already own to make a name for themselves with comic fans and then taking their own creations to smaller publishers who would allow them to keep the rights. Example: Robert Kirkman worked for Marvel for years, then when he had a big enough name he created “The Walking Dead” and eventually that got popular enough that he could quit working for Marvel and focus only on stuff he completely owned. Marvel and DC are now mostly zombie corporations surviving on the intellectual property that dead (or nearly dead) people made.

          • Muthsarah

            So…if I understand this right, even though new characters kept being created in the 1980s and beyond, they were only licensed by the smaller comics companies, because the larger ones were already sticking with the big names, and the new-creators chose to sign with the smaller “labels”?

            Does that mean that the comics industry fundamentally shifted in the 1970s and 1980s, such that the earlier characters were firmly under control of the big labels (Marvel) and would either continue their years-long adventures, or get rebooted, and that the newer, smaller comics had to find a way to survive without the big-name brand recognition of their publishers?

            So…when Marvel first made deals with the big Hollywood studios (before Disney done bought them), they auctioned off their big names from the 1960s especially? And the stuff the smaller artists ran off and did, they did on their own (Spawn was a movie I remember existed from way back, never saw it, and of course, TMNT 1, a really damn good movie I grew up with, therefore a really damn good movie), which apparently has mostly come to nothing (at least compared with what Marvel and DC properties have been doing over the last decade)?

          • $36060516

            The first big budget Marvel movie was actually Howard the Duck, which was a ’70s creation, and Blade and Ghost Rider are other ’70s era thangs. The creators of all three of those comics sued Marvel (separately and at separate times) to try to get money from the movies. There was a confidential out-of-court settlement of the former, but the guys who created Blade and Ghost Rider lost. But yeah, most of it is ’60s stuff. The X-Men were created in the ’60s, but the version in the movies was created by Chris Claremont and various artists he worked with in the mid ’70s through the ’80s. Marvel has actually given him some money for that, though the amount is not known.

            But yeah, you got it. Marvel and DC are basically having to recycle the same stuff over and over, rebooting the storylines of their characters every so many years (such as with DC’s New 52). Marvel even went to the length of creating an “Ultimate” Marvel universe, a separate timeline so that they could have even more versions of the same characters published simultaneously. (The Avengers movie with Samuel Jackson was based on the Ultimate Marvel version of the Avengers, not the original one. He was actually drawn as Samuel Jackson in those comics years before the movie.)

            There have even been comics which were created mainly to be sold to Hollywood. “Cowboys and Aliens” is one of the more extreme examples. That was created by a scam artist publisher who released the graphic novel then bought most of the copies himself so that he could show the sales figures to Hollywood to encourage them to buy it, claiming it was very popular when few people actually bought or read it (which actually worked).

        • $36060516
      • Wizkamridr

        Steel is the only clone I like. Cyborg basically took his place as popular black hero. (I think).

  • Gallen_Dugall

    Yeah, the asexual crowd will continue to be slighted long after homosexuality becomes mainstream. Or as I told my speculating co-workers “I don’t want to have sex with any of you, so it doesn’t matter.” but of course social norms say not only does it matter but it is the MOST (and probably only) important thing about a person.
    also every time I see Anthony Mackie on or off the screen I am amazed at what a home run he is in casting – charming delightful enthusiastic, just perfect. I want to hug him.

    • What?

      • Gallen_Dugall

        people are not allowed to mark “none of the above” on sexual preference, which is what Cap does in the movie. He is alienated from society, really alienated and not just a contrarian douche, and doesn’t want to fake interest. Now in a reasonable civilization people would allow that to be that, but not in this day. In the film (and now in this article) there is constant pressure for him to assert his “sexual identity” so that other people know how to feel about him. The lesson here is that you can’t be you, you have to fit a stereotype that people know how to respond to with all their prejudices and biases. No one will ever accept you for being you.

        • Muthsarah

          Cap’s…depicted as “probably straight” from the first movie and his lil relationship-that-wasn’t-to-be with Peggy; there was probably something meaningful in that final remark from the first movie. Sure, he could be something else inside, but that’s for the viewer to interpret, as is anything not put up on the screen in some way. Cap wasn’t depicted as being uninterested in sex, but as always being busy doing something else, so that sex never became an issue. He’s not portrayed as asexual, but the movie effectively is. Even when a woman flirts with him (Peggy, that woman that kissed him, Black Widow, the niece/agent-person), he comes off more generally awkward than disinterested, which could be a result of his temporal identity crisis (he doesn’t even know what to feel about himself, let alone anyone else), or maybe a trait he had going back to his similarly-if-polar-oppositely-awkward pre-serum days. I give all the kudos to the filmmakers for keeping the focus on the stuff most important to the story and leaving all the peripheral matters (even the ones, like sexuality, that, yes, are often “explored” just because it’s expected) to the fans.

          • Gallen_Dugall

            my point is the “public” gets confused and angry when there isn’t a clear trait which they can hang their prejudices on – this is why films spend massive amounts of time making sure that characters have their sexuality clearly defined when in reality sexual identity is one of the least important aspects of a character.
            Example – the “bad guy” in Skyfall was clearly established as gay… why establish this trait that was completely irrelevant to the story?
            If you’re not going to have a shooting or any threat of a shooting, why establish the presence of a firearm? Establishing a fictional character as having a particular orientation (outside of a romance story) NEVER feels like anything other than pandering. It’s either for fantasy projection pandering (like James Bond) or “you know what they’re like” stereotype pandering.

          • Muthsarah

            Yeah, I’m not arguing against that, though “confused and angry”, I think, might be overstating it. If Peggy had not been in the first movie (though she did provide the audience with a significant – and fun – female character to follow in a movie about one man’s transformation), then Cap’s sexuality would have been completely ignored, and I think the plot would have chugged along just fine. The movie handled it with a much lighter touch than we usually see, but, well…it was going for a throwback feel; even (or especially, perhaps) in the 1930s and 1940s, you HAD to have a love interest for the main character, even if it didn’t make a hell of a lot of sense what a “sweet dish” was doing in the middle of that particular desert or whatever. That’s a film convention going back to the silent days, and probably to theatrical traditions before them. Had TFA, of all Marvel movies, been the most post-modern regarding depictions of sexuality…while it wouldn’t have gone against the movie’s theme, it wouldn’t have entirely fit the film’s context. If any Marvel film should have felt “traditional” (but not to the point of exclusion), it was that one, and to some extent, TWS.

            I agree that sexuality is often considered to be a mandatory detail for any person depicted in either fiction or reality (there’s ALWAYS speculation about what famous person, real or not, may or may not be secretly gay), but…most people are sexual (with a great many, from my observation, hoping to be even more sexual than they really are), and for them, sexuality is always a titillating subject that’s rarely far from the front of their minds. It is how it is. And for stories that have a vested interest in reaching as many people as possible, yeah, they’re aiming for the biggest chunk of the audience, same reason most “big” stories are still about men (with maleness still the societal “default”, it’s seen as more normal for women to identify with men than for men to identify with women), and, while homosexuality and bisexuality are slowly growing in awareness and acceptance, asexuality still has a ways to go to get where they are. It may, in fact, remain the most stigmatized, or “otherish” of them all.

            Yeah, Silva’s sexuality wasn’t relevant to the plot (well…maybe kinda a little bit, actually, maybe, in a background sense, though the film didn’t make it entirely clear exactly what was going on with the events surrounding his break with MI6 and M), but I’d be lying if I were to say his…tempered flamboyance (not necessarily in a sexual sense) didn’t make his first scene even more interesting to see than as it mighta read on paper. And, for the most part, the film didn’t make anything more of it, which…actually leads to my confusion over his background. I’d like to think Sam Mendes and company didn’t make him visually gay in hopes that would make him a stronger, easier-(and-funner)-to hate villain for certain members of the audience, and I’ll still give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.

          • Wizkamridr

            God forbid if a virgin doesn’t have time for women. (I’m agreeing).

          • Muthsarah

            I posted something in reply to this. Now I don’t see it. Why are my comments disappearing?

            EDIT: Nevermind, I hit “Load Comments” twice below, then it showed up again. Most inconvenient.

  • conservative man
    • $36060516

      Watch out, conservative man. By entering this thread you’ve put yourself in danger of being forced to make a cake for a gay wedding.

      • conservative man

        Actually now I will probably be in danger of being forced to take wedding photos of gay couples as that seems to be the latest thing the pro gay lobby is going for right now.

        • $36060516

          next thing ya know black people will be forcing white people to betray their moral code by allowing blacks to eat at their lunch counters… when will the depravity end

          • conservative man

            ( sigh )

          • Mike

            As if any of that could possibly be worse than being called an enemy of God and country (whatever than country might be or whatever God that countries leaders choose to recognize). People have be killed for centuries by various kinds of Governments. I don’t now that anyones ever been sentence to death for the reasons, mentioned above. If they were more the exception than the rule.

          • $36060516

            (sigh) It’s the exact same principle. People thought they should be allowed to refuse service to blacks because it was against their personal beliefs. You think they should be allowed to refuse service to gays because of their personal beliefs. Our country does not operate on such principles. Thanks for the melodramatic meme though.

        • Muthsarah

          You don’t actually think that a soon-to-be-married-gay-couple would wanna invite a decidely-anti-gay photographer to their wedding, do ya? I’ve been to weddings both planned by gay people I know, and even “starring” gay people I know. They’re not gonna force anyone who won’t accept them and what they’re doing to document their big day. They’d surely much rather have someone they feel they can trust handle this important task. You’re safe. The gays aren’t coming for you.

          • conservative man

            Well they are in the case of one photographer, but maybe they just really like the photos she takes and they won’t take no for an answer.

      • Wizkamridr
        • Muthsarah

          Yeah….that’s kinda a bit over-the-line. Though I ultimately sympathize with their greater cause, I suspect the couple was pushing it as far as they did for the purposes of making a statement (which is understandable, given the context of just everything else going on regarding abuse towards gay people in society), not because they simply didn’t have anywhere else to go for their cake. In general, privately-owned service industries should be free to turn customers away if they have a reason (one they’re willing to wear in public), provided it can’t be argued that the denial of service caused any harm (like the only service station in miles refusing to fix someone’s car, broken down in the desert, because the people in need are gay). Not that I’d sympathize or even think well of that business owner, but people have a right to be unlikeable and do unlikeable things, provided they aren’t violating someone else’s rights. And I just don’t recognize a fundamental legal right to buy a cake from a particular business, or eat at a particular restaurant. Maybe to stay at a hotel (because shelter is a little more fundamental to one’s well-being than is cake for a planned, but future, event), or to buy medicine, or even to shop at a grocery store in a town with few alternatives.

          If businesses are allowed to draw the line between behavior they’re willing to tolerate on their premises (noise levels at restaurants, amount of alcohol consumed in bars, rowdiness at sports arenas, or loitering at markets or stores – all of which is entirely subject to the owner’s discretion and none of which is in itself criminal, thus not a matter for the law unless the customer refuses to leave the property when told to), it’s only consistent that they be allowed to choose what customers they want to serve, and for how long, and in what way; it’s the exact same thing, unless you want to come up with laws to cover what is and what is not acceptable behavior, anywhere and everywhere. Same as if a plumber or other similar service comes to someone’s house and gets creeped out by the owner, he/she should be accorded the right to refuse service and immediately leave instead of being forced to stay and do work for them. It’s how private contracts work, and it’s a mess for the police and courts to mediate. For the same reasons gay people should be presumed to enjoy equal rights in the eyes of the law, so business owners should have the right to NOT contract with someone if they don’t want to (whether or not it has anything to do with sexuality), unless, again, it can be argued that refusal of service is actively harmful.

          Yeah, I’m aware of how rampant pre-70s racial discrimination went, and were I alive back then, I’d probably feel differently about the whole matter as it existed back then, but I don’t see the current situation as being anywhere near as severe or in need of government mediation. This isn’t about rampant, institutionalized violence backed by the state (that’s another, very real, matter). Thankfully, things just aren’t quite that bad anymore. Regarding minor issues of bigotry, you gotta let some of it go, let word get around about the business, picket and/or shame them (in a legally-appropriate fashion) and let them either change their personal policies or just move on and let them be the bigots they are.

          On that note, the idea of forbidding privately-owned businesses to discriminate thusly, but still allowing religiously-affiliated businesses to do so, is glaringly inconsistent. THAT’s not where they should be drawing the line. Why can a church turn away gay people who want to attend a service, but bakers can’t turn away gay customers because of the exact same religious beliefs? Ban both, or ban neither.

          Feel free to open up both barrels if you so desire. I’m well-acquainted with the dangers of standing in the middle.

        • $36060516

          Yeah, I know about that story. That’s why I mentioned that very specific thing. Conservative man has made it a symbol of how Christians are an oppressed group in America in his previous posts. I’m sure the Ku Klux Klan and their supporters felt oppressed when they were forced to bake cakes for black people and serve them in restaurants.

  • I am a big fan of superheroes, and I understand that there is an issue with a lack of diversity in the genre. Most of this stuff was made in an era in which diversity was not a thing to shoot for. So this actually wouldn’t be a bad option. There is nothing in Captain America’s character that so ties him to hetrosexuality that he must like vagina.

    But then I am a martian. I am one of those people who would be completely okay with a gay Batman, or a black Superman, or god forbid a Wonder Woman movie. So my personal liberalism with the appearance or sexual quirks of characters is really out of step with the racist and homophobic whole of society.

    • Wizkamridr

      I thought batman and superman were a couple.

      • If you read Jeph Loeb’s run on Batman/Superman you can be forgiven for that misunderstanding.

        • Wizkamridr

          It was meant as a joke. And no i dont keep track since dc comic writers are bi polar.

  • FEnM

    I keep waiting for the X-Men films to have Jean-Paul Beaubier (and his sister Jeanne-Marie), a character who’s been canonically gay since he was first conceived back the 80’s.

    There are gay characters in both the DC and Marvel Universes, they just don’t put them in the damn movies.

    • They don’t put them in their movies because none of them have had even close to the sales records or cultural impact of their straight counterparts. It’s sad, because it’s not even like they’re all bad or token characters. DC in particular has Tommy Jagger, Renee Montoya, and Batwoman off the top of my head, all of whom are awesome.

      • FEnM

        Yeah… [sigh]

        Oh! I just thought of something: John Constantine is canonically bisexual, and they’re doing a TV series with him. I wonder if they’ll address his sexuality…

        • Not likely. Hercules was bisexual, both in actual myth and in the Marvel comics. How many of the dozens of Hercules movies has he been portrayed as bi?

  • Moppet

    I don’t really want to see this simply because I’d rather a super hero that was gay all along have a movie made, rather than it be shoehorned into a character to make a statement. I remember when I was young coming across Spectral, a male character that turned out to be gay. The comics actually dealt with it too, it wasn’t just, “Oh yeah, and he’s gay.” It’s one of the things I felt Malibu Comics, with the Ultraverse, did right, for all the mistakes and missteps elsewhere.

    A casual search for homosexual comic book characters turned up quite a few, and, oddly enough, I actually managed to find a few out of the bunch that weren’t lesbians that existed purely for reasons of sex appeal. So picking a good male or female character, that’s homosexual, with thought behind that fact (and not just done for sex appeal) is wholly possible. I’d really just prefer to see that. With Captain Peggy Carter may be out of the way now but with that already established it really would feel like he was just suddenly turned gay, just because. I don’t want that to be how things are handled, not something on a whim, but something with real thought and love behind it.

    Not to disagree with the fact, and it is a fact, that he and Falcon are adorable together.

    • It would be great if there were gay superheroes in publication who have sales figures and multimedia popularity even in the same league as the Avengers or the Justice League, etc. There are a lot of good gay characters out their, they aren’t all tokens. Unfortunately, until such a time as Batwoman starts selling four books a month like her male counterpart, that isn’t going to happen. The only realistic way we are going to see real LGBT representation in the movies any time soon is if an existing popular character like Cap is retconned.

      • Wizkamridr

        Or we could just throw out romance, and make everyone asexual or whatever the correct term is. I have no problem with spidey not having anything to do with mj or whatever female is in his comics. Just my opinion. Not here to argue or piss anyone off.

      • Moppet

        That’s a delusion. That isn’t a LGBT representation at all. That’s taking something that’s straight, already established as straight (in the very movie universe you’re talking about, at that), and then suddenly calling them gay. That’s not real. That’s the most basic example of a token. “Oh, and now they’re gay, just so people think we actually support the LGBT crowd.” It’s like throwing a black character in the midst of a bunch of white people in your movie to not appear racist. The LGBT characters in film, books, games and comics that I want to see are characters that actually encompass those things, real characters with layers. Not the LGBT logo slapped on them. Not some fake. Not some fraud. Not something inserted at random in hopes it would make a few easily bribed people happy.

        That is what it would be. Not something finally done right to represent a proper LGBT character. It would be a lie. Something wrong. It’s everything I don’t want, because what I want isn’t a lie. What I want to be achieved, one day, the right way, is real and true. Not a bribe. Not a lie. Not a retcon. The real deal. I’d rather push and struggle for that for a decade more to achieve something real than see people accept another fraud. And that is what it would be, no matter how you word it or justify it. I don’t want another token gay character, I don’t want a straight character that’s had a rainbow flag slapped on them at random. I want an actual character with depth and layers and feelings – who has had to actually deal with this part of themselves.

        Maybe this happens. It wouldn’t make me happy. I’d feel like I’d lost. Like we all had. Even as a few easily bribed sheep were celebrating.

  • Richard Eriksson Hjelm

    not to sure about including romance in general in these movies it never seems to become anything more than a distraction

    • True, but that’s true of all American blockbuster movies, because Hollywood has spent the last 40+ years obsessed with the idea that every movie has to appeal to everybody. So a romance in going to be shoehorned into this movies no matter what. Might at well take advantage of that.

      • Muthsarah

        On that note, are you in favor (obviously, in the absence of a Cap/Falcon ship) having Cap and Widow be an item? Given that they’re seemingly polar opposites and all? I just don’t know what Marvel would hope to gain by re-treading the Cap/Sharon-Granddaughter-what’s-her-face relationship. It’s already been done in the comics (I assume from what I’ve heard), so there’s nothing new, nothing unexpected, thus nothing exciting about the pairing; it’d be like going through the motions, steering the ship towards the rocks….of predictability, just because you feel you have no choice. Which is the last thing a trillion-dollar franchise should feel it has to do.

        But fixing up Mr. Greatest Generation with a flirty, baggage-laden, assassin-with-a-heart-of-gold, there’s potential for a great “opposites attract” thing; even though it’s already been hinted at officially, thus is less sexy, but still. I think they’d be a very interesting couple. It’s at least good as far as the mainstream goes. And I think I’ve been burned too much over the years to let my mind wander into more exotic waters.

        • I would not like to see that. As hot at it would be seeing the two sexiest people in the Marvel Movieverse getting it on, I’m glad they stopped short of starting anything in Winter Soldier. It wouldn’t be a fair or healthy relationship for Cap, he needs someone who can be honest with him and commit, which Widow could never do, and I don’t think she’s interested in a “relationship” with anyone right now anyway. Their flirtation was cute, but also made it clear they definitely would not work as a couple.

          And honestly, I think Widow should probably stay single, at least for a while. I get a bit sick of Hollywood’s need to pair every woman up with someone, so it’s kind’ve refreshing to have a woman in an action series who’s unattached without being an asexual ice queen.

          • Actually, if you look closely, Widow is wearing an arrow-shaped necklace. Make of that what you will.

      • Richard Eriksson Hjelm

        I don’t know captain america 2 kinda made fun of the idea of a love interest for the cap

  • drumstick00m

    This would be fascinating because:

    1. I am almost 100% sure Capt. is still a virgin as of the end of this movie.
    2. It would be interesting how many men and teenage boys it leads to have the epiphany that they too are gay as well as more importantly: gives them the courage to come out.

    PS I bring up the second point because I notice that it did happen a lot with another set of superheroes: the Sailor Scouts (Uranus and Neptune).

    Either way: Captain America + Falcon = Captain Falcon = Falcon Punch. Memorial Day 2016

    • Wizkamridr

      Capt. Falcon= Kamen Rider. Rider Kick.

    • JD

      Uranus and Neptune were originally written as a gay couple. they were only made “cousins”
      in the American version.

  • $36060516
  • Muthsarah

    That’d be a REALLY hard sell, methinks. The “Heimdall Incident” times ten. Marvel’s got a great thing going, I think there’s about a 0.1% chance they’d even seriously consider doing something like this. Like it or not, these movies are popular with huge swaths of the population, including those who aren’t gay-friendly, and the squeaky/intolerant wheel still tends to get the grease where products this big are concerned; they wouldn’t wanna risk alienating even 10% of their audience. I don’t wanna speculate too much, but the overseas revenue might take a big hit too, and given how important THAT is these days….’Course, if they wanted to cover their bases, they could introduce a lesbian couple too. If they went with….Black Widow, and…..Darcy, I think even the most insecure 12-year-old boy and angry gay-bashing 45-year-old man could still be lured to the multiplexes. Hell, just hand the post-Avengers 2 stories over to the shippers.

    • It’s an unlikely scenario, to be sure, but if there is any current studio that just MIGHT go there, it’s Marvel. They’re a pretty consistently ballsy studio, and the the “Heimdall Incident” already proved that fanboy outrage over issues like race is a mostly impotent force with no power of box office sales. It would mostly come down to whether or not Disney felt America is “ready for it”, I.E. whether non-comic-reading Joe Public is still reflexively homophobic enough to steer clear of a fun looking action movie because it has two men kissing in it. If it did ever happen, they’d probably keep it out of the advertising. I still highly doubt it’ll happen even if it occurs to them, but It’s more likely than, say, DC/WB doing the same to one of their flagship characters.

      • Muthsarah

        Quick question: Are you gonna be making any more video reviews? I already like your analytical style to these dorky subjects, but I do miss hearing you presenting your own arguments. Text is….kinda impersonal, gotta say.

        • As soon as I find somewhere to film. Moved out of my parents, and the room I’m renting now doesn’t have space for my set.

  • Solkir

    Woaah there! I make a video about changing a character’s race, and I get every Tom, Dick and Douchebag
    clamoring to tell me what an idiot I am for wanting to change things that have always been a certain way. But you do a write up about making a beloved American icon gay, and you get reasonable discourse? The fuck is this shit!? I’ll be in my sulking corner!

    • Muthsarah

      Maybe race is still a more sensitive topic, something that’s just gonna take more time to get over. Who knows, maybe we’ll see our first gay president before we see our first…..uhhh…….Nevermind.

      • J.O

        The orientation card is probably a little easier to pull than the race card because it probably keeps the same image of the usual hero, whereas the orientation card has probably been messed with more than once… i think. I think i read somewhere about instances in Marvel and DC changing the orientations or announcing them out of the blue, though you’ll probably know more about that than me. But i’m think it has more to do with an image they try to hold onto and changing in ways that are more… subtle i guess, such as orientation, is possibly a little easier than a full on race lift, for some reason. That or maybe people are just starting to get used to slashers now more than anything.

        • Muthsarah

          “I think i read somewhere about instances in Marvel and DC changing the
          orientations or announcing them out of the blue, though you’ll probably
          know more about that than me.”

          That’s almost mathematically impossible. I don’t know $#!+ about comic books. I’ve prolly seen as many Marvel Universe/X-Men movies as I’ve read their comic books. You needn’t feel you should defer to me on anything related to this subject.

          And I’ll maintain that I think even the most reactionary fans would prolly be more open to changing a character’s skin color than changing their sexuality. Few people today would publicly admit they have even the slightest problem with someone of another race, so they’d only have the lazy/default “change is inherently bad” argument to fall back on; with sexuality (STILL a hot-button issue, sadly), I feel a lot more people, even a comparatively-silent minority, would have deeper reservations. I feel like, if they made Cap gay, a lot of people (most of them unreasonably, but not all) would feel like it was an eleventh-hour injection-of-current-politics that isn’t supported by anything displayed in the three films we’ve seen him in thus far. And while I wouldn’t support their particular politics on this issue, I think I could sympathize to some extent with their base reaction to the twist.

          FWIW (full disclosure), I saw Winter Soldier, and it did not occur once to me that there was anything remotely resembling homosexual chemistry between Cap and Falcon. I just saw two guys being forthright and open with one another about their feelings on…anything. No posturing. No competition to be “more manly”. Just….two guys being honest and speaking from the heart, like, by default. When Joshua says he picks up something “super-gay” from that….I wanna throw stuff at him and tell him to shut his damn mouth before he re-enforces the kinds of insecurities that lead to macho-based cultural depictions of (EDIT: straight) masculinity…..but….well…just ‘cuz I didn’t pick up on something, I’m not gonna assume it’s unreasonable that someone else saw something I didn’t. I liked what I saw, and I liked my interpretation of it. I’d like to think two guys can just be that way with each other without anyone observing bringing up sexuality. But that’s just me.

          • J.O

            It’s fine, some people see it, others don’t. And sorry about my last reply, it was kinda supposed to go to both you and Solkir, but i’m pretty terrible about lumping two things together. Can’t wait to see Winter Soldier, gonna take one of my friends to see it for her birthday.

          • Muthsarah

            Oh, it’s SOOO worth it. Just, bear in mind, it’s almost 2 1/2 hours long. Use the restrooms ahead of time, and pace your popcorn/candy/soda rations appropriately. If your experience is anything like mine, you’ll start to feel the length of the film just as the final action scenes are being set up, which’ll help to keep it from seeming overly-long, but, all the same, it will feel like a bit of an epic movie.

          • J.O

            Thanks, but mostly we’ll be drinking water. Plan on going out afterwards to dinner and then drive back home because of a test the next morning.

          • Cristiona

            Well, guys apparently can’t be friends with women without wanting to fuck them, so I guess it’s only fair that they can’t be friends with men, either.

          • Muthsarah

            It’s like all men are pigeon-holed in Hollywood films, like they can’t exist unless they fit in decades-old paradigms. Like they exist only to suggest certain underlying sexual urges between them and the supporting cast.

            As always, women have it worse, no question. But I’ll take ANY development from the traditional formulae. I’m not saying there isn’t a place for macho-ist men to strut around in their low-cut sleeveless shirts, chest-bumping each other, staring each other in the face for a good minute, with not but an inch between their full, tense lips and their intense, challenging gazes. With their biceps perceptively rippling at visions’ periphery. While they’re totally thinking about pounding the other guy into eager submission, over….whatever.

            I agree with whoever it is somewhere around here who lamented that all male-female relationships in Hollywood movies had to withstand charges of sexual tension or whatever (definitely my very dismissive words, not any one else’s). I did very much enjoy the rapport between Cap and Widow in The Winter Soldier. On the whole, I’da been just fine with them eventually taking this on-the-one-hand-exceptionally-casual and on-the-other-hand-exceptionally-awkward flirtation to some other level. I get that it almost seems forced (predominantly because Widow was the only significant female character in the movie, and thus the idea of immediately fixing her up with the nearest buffed-up guy begs immediate charges of “restrictive conventionality” or whatever. But I just like their rapport too much to let the idea go; they may not be “cute couple”, but I’d nonetheless like to think of them as a couple who could complement each other and thus help to cover each other’s most vulnerable spots (Cap’s excessive-by-temporal-insistence innocence and Widow’s cynicism-by-virtue-of-a-bad-upbringing).

            Overall, I don’t think it’d be too difficult to make them work. Yeah, it’d be an easy enough pairing to suggest conventionality, but really, they’d be the anti-conventional pairing. Yeah, with only the genders reversed (bad girl, ridiculously virtuous/virginal male), so not a huge deal, but, as far as mainstream Hollywood goes, that’d still be a moderate step in the right direction.

    • Presumably, written stuff attracts people who are willing to read, and thus already a slightly more elite group.

      There is also the issue of combative tone. This article is more of a chummy, “hey, how about we…” While your video was a little more…. Lighting strike eliciting.

      • Solkir

        Yeah, guess I was a bit more accusatory. It comes with the territory of being smarter than everyone.

        • CaptainCalvinCat

          How modest you are….

          • Solkir

            It’s true. Of my many virtues, modesty is probably the most apparent. In fact, I’m the MOST modest person ever, so I win.

          • CaptainCalvinCat

            bwahahahahaha. That was a good one.

    • $36060516

      Solkir, Sultan of Sulking

  • Ken Zevo

    I know! Let’s make Captain America BLACK! Or a black MIDGET. Or maybe a black midget WOMAN. How about a black midget woman jihadi? WHERE DOES IT END !??!

    How about leaving the classics alone. Don’t put slacks on the Mona Lisa, or a fig leaf on Michelangelo’s “David”; it is NOT an improvement, it is just a cheap show of submission to the PC Thought Police.

    And, for the record: I have NO objection – ZERO – to gay superheroes in the comics. I just get double-plus totally eaten up with sickly green vitriolic rage when yet another one of my childhood icons gets ret-conned to near-unrecognizability. Why can’t the classics stay classic? If you want to make something “new & improved”, then bring something new & improved to the table (i.e. that we’ve never seen before), don’t go packaging “New Coke” taste in cans with “traditional flavor Coke” labels.

    • J.O

      Sometimes classics will be, have to be, or just suddenly be changed for a more updated audience. Sometimes it holds up on it’s own merits but missing a few things from the original, my best example is Tom Savini’s Night of the Living Dead, and Elementary… that last one may not be that good of an example though since i’m doubtful of it’s merit’s when compared to Sherlock. Either way, people will update the older things that ‘belonged’ originally to the older generation who grew up with it. Sometimes it has to evolve to survive, other times it’ll be a marketing ploy.
      Another example i have of something getting ‘messed with’ is DmC in how it rebooted the characters of the older franchise. I hated the character aspect and the design, but the story and gameplay was good. Overall, change to the classics is something we’ll just have to deal with.

    • $36060516

      You could always let your childhood icons stay in your childhood and move on to something else.

    • jjramsey

      I know! Let’s make Batwoman gay! Have her backstory be that she was a military cadet who had to leave because of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” and then became aimless until she took on the mantle of the Bat.

      Oh, wait. They did that … and it turned out rather well, actually. Sometimes changes to old characters work out.

    • The sexuality of the character is not a substantive enough change to make him unrecognizable, nor I would say is race. Sex or gender could be.

      It is a crowded marketplace for characters, and new IP has not made a substantive splash in decades in comics, and outside there is little hope of making a movie about a gay character that is not about them being gay. So to take a character that people are familiar with, and then change a thing that does not affect their story telling utility, but still grants some diversity to the universe is valuable.

      As far as, “where does it end?” It doesn’t. People, society, and fiction change. Things change with the times, when they don’t they are doomed to obsolescence.

    • Rachel

      The MCU is completely separate from the comics. If you haven’t noticed, a lot of characters have some pretty big differences when comparing comic canon to MCU canon. Pietro and Wanda aren’t even going to be mutants. Tony Stark originally discovered Steve in the ice. Clint Barton was an antagonist in the comics, before he earned the title of an Avenger. Steve and Tony were best buds practically from the first issue of the Avengers that Cap appeared in, but in the movie, they argued through until the end, where they finally respected each other and became friends. Nobody in the Avengers even knew that Tony was Iron Man.

      Hell, the original Avengers didn’t even include Cap, Black Widow, or Hawkeye, and Wasp was the one who gave them their team name, not Nick Fury. Who, by the way, was originally white.

      The plots in MCU are all different and vary absolutely from comic canon. If you’re looking for superhero movies that exactly replicate the comics, you’re watching the wrong movies. Everything is different, and I don’t see how Steve Rogers being not-straight would make him “unrecognizable.” That, and the fact that you’re actually disgusted by him possibly liking men (despite your claim of having no problem with gay superheroes), sounds very homophobic, to me.

      • Ken Zevo

        Good points, one & all, thx.

        The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Cap being gay … but only if it is done as an evolution, not as a bomb shell. As pointed out above, it could be used to explain some of his more exotic character qualities / eccentricities.

        My objection is that I don’t want them to make him gay just for the sake of doing so (i.e. shock value), or in ways that go against his established character & backstory. Having grown up in a time (1960s-1970s) and place (Deep South) where homophobia was rampant; and having watched the slow evolution of several friends during those years, as they dealt with their various slow & painful journeys out of the closet & into the streets; I feel that having Cap suddenly & miraculously “turn gay” would be an insult both to his character specifically, and gay people generally, since (according to all my gay friends) that is just NOT how it works … no one just wakes up one day & finds they are gay.

        I hope this helps to clear up my feelings on the matter.

        “the fact that you’re actually disgusted by him possibly liking men (despite your claim of having no problem with gay superheroes), sounds very homophobic”

        Re-read my post, and show any part of it in which I said – in ANY manner – that I am disgusted by the possibility of Cap liking men. You are reading things between the lines that I never wrote, and accusing me of an unreasonable fear that I never expressed. I don’t appreciated being falsely labeled, falsely libeled, nor having my character dragged thru the mud without so much as a single shred of evidence to back your claim.

        In the future, I suggest that you convict a person with evidence, not accusations. Otherwise, the only thing that you‘ll prove is that you are both a character assassin, and unfit to debate topics of any serious nature.

        • Michael McNinch

          “it is NOT an improvement, it is just a cheap show of submission to the PC Thought Police.” A a typical dismissive attitude – as the concept of PC seems to have become nothing more than a buzz word for – don’t include this group.

          In fact you do come off as homophobic – many of your arguments are atypical of a homophobe who doesn’t want to see any diversity, but at the same time knows flat out saying that would get him nothing but scorn.

          Steve Rogers being gay (or bi) would neither hurt nor improve the character by virtue of just being that (it depends on how he’s written) – although I think it would be an interesting twist on a beloved character – but then again I’m gay and part of the evil PC Thought Police ya know – anyone fine with changing a character in a new medium to try and add a bit of diversity – we’re so evil.

          Also – you’ve never been closeted – I spent years telling people I was straight INCLUDING MYSELF because that’s what people WANT you to be. With almost every main character being a heterosexual dude – it’s stifling to say the least…

          • Ken Zevo

            “you’ve never been closeted ”

            Want to bet? You know nothing about me, or my personal life, yet you certainly don’t mind labeling me anyway. You sound like you have issues … but, as I know nothing about you, I really just don’t know what they are … and I am hesitant to label people based strictly on a very limited first impression.

            For what it’s worth, I whole-heartedly agree with your complaint about “almost every main character being a heterosexual dude”, and I am genuinely pleased that many modern media are correcting that bias to reflect the world-as-it-is, in all its diversity, rather than the Middle Class White Bread Wonderland mythology of the past century.

            BUT (he wearily points out, AGAIN), I don’t like certain icons being ret-conned for reasons that appear, to me IMAO, to be little more than PC pandering. If the general population really WANTED to see a gay character introduced into their comic universe THAT badly (and I contend that they DO), then the comic book makers wouldn’t need to have it be a refurbishment of an established character. A gay character could stand or fall on his/her own merits, if that was what the general population wanted to see.

            Assuming that ret-conning gayness into a brand-name character after-the-fact is the only effective way to get a gay foot in the door (as has been suggested in other parts of this thread), then that just shows how weak the need for gay characters really is; and that comics are indeed pandering to a small-but-highly-vocal group with special interests, to give them an impact that is out of proportion to their numbers.

            AND (he points out, wearily) I think a suitable compromise is possible. I served honorably with dozens of gay soldiers in the U.S. Army, and have personally known several who spoke of using hyper-macho behavior to camouflage their inner feelings, including from themselves. The fellow who taught me everything I know about chess was a high school quarterback, got married, had children, and even joined the Green Berets, all to prove to himself (amongst others) that he could overcome his inner sexual orientation – all without much success. (He is now a pre-op man-to-woman trans-sexual, and much happier ever since making the decision to accept who s/he is rather than trying to be “normal”.)

            I think Cap’s story could be tweaked – gently – in that same direction, if it was done slowly, as a natural evolution in his adjustment to the 21st century. It would certainly explain certain things about him which have already been mentioned – many close male friends & relationships, not so many female ones, his obsessive need to join the military, feelings of alienation, etc. The material is largely already there, so ret-conning could be kept to a minimum, done gradually over time as a natural (not forced) evolution of character, it would tie up some loose ends, and would not be gay-for-its-own-sake pandering.

            I don’t think we are that far apart on substance, just time frame. I don’t want to see Cap “turn” gay overnight. I think a conversion of this kind takes time … at least, the vast majority of the 100+ gays that I have known all seem to agree that their journey to self-acceptance was long, difficult, and glacially slow one that required the patience of Job to complete.

            If Marvel wants to introduce a new gay character, I have no problem with that, more power to them; BUT, if they are going to fool with a major brand-name character, they should do so slowly, respectfully, and with great care … or they may find they have killed the goose that lays their golden eggs … esp. with older readers like myself, who aren’t that fond of change for change’s sake.

            If it ain’t broke, why “fix” it? (Or, as an old friend once said, “It wasn’t really broke, but I fixed it anyway; and, by the time that I was done fixing it, it was REALLY broke!”

  • StevePotter

    Why couldn’t Cap be bisexual? That way it doesn’t sort of retcon his relationship with Peggy, and it would allow for a mainstream bisexual male.

    • Muthsarah

      I hate to suggest it, but….how would a Hollywood film depict a bisexual….unless it were to depict that characters in multiple sex scenes…explicitly? (EDIT: OK, not THAT kinda explicit, just…spelling it out like for its own sake) The Marvel films have prudently avoided any scenes, of any sort,….for the sake of basic, non-sexual decorum. Because that’s not what these films are about. I assume.

      Making Cap bisexual would require even more on-screen work than would be required to make him gay. To get such a point (gay or bi) across to the audience would require some scenes explicitly setting that up and explaining it (at this point, prolly ret-conning it). And to find a way to do that without interfering with the flow of the plot? Especially impossible.

      To make Cap simply gay, but previously closeted because…1930s and 1940s, would be comparatively simple. Granted, I would kinda be tickled at the idea of a major motion picture superhero being outwardly bi (not because he’s specifically bi, but just because he is happily capable of genuinely loving people regardless of physical gender, and doesn’t care about labels) would be fantabulous. But that’s a crazy leap for anybody, in any major movie, to make. Making him simply gay (even including a limited attraction to Peggy) would be a lot easier. As huge a leap as that still would be.

      Why can’t he just love Peggy for being Peggy (an assertive, confident, conventionally-attractive woman), love Falcon for being Falcon (a sweet, passionate, brave and self-sacrificial man), love Widow for being Widow, love Nick Fury for being Nick Fury, etc. These movies aren’t about sex. We needn’t define our characters so explicitly. If some among the audience want to view Cap as being gay, and others to view him as straight but entirely-celibate, and others as straight-but-interested (in whatever women are dangled before him)-but-never-interested-enough. Leave room for fan projection. That’s prolly the best thing they can do for the fan community – leave them wanting more….room for geeky over-explanation of things not fully-explained.

      • MichaelANovelli

        Fantabulous? That’s *MY* line!

        • Muthsarah

          I’ve been using that word since forever. Before I knew YOU existed, at least.

          And, seriously, you couldn’t have possibly read my whole post, in that 20 seconds between posting and your latest mini-regurgitation. My whole view of your professionalism is being called into serious question.

          • MichaelANovelli

            Oh, there’s no question, there. I have *no* professionalism to speak of. ^_^

          • Muthsarah

            But do you have any humanity? At least you could read my whole post before you respond…. :(

          • MichaelANovelli

            Well, oddly enough, I did. :-) You used that word about three quarters of the way through, right before making an excellent point about how the Marvel movies aren’t about sexuality and that there would be nothing wrong with Cap being portrayed as celibate or gay or however the viewer wants to see him because the story is more important. I would offer that the needs of the story might require such things, but originally decided not to. I lack professionalism, but I tend to be a very fast reader. Also, I can write in cursive upside-down! ^_^

      • StevePotter

        Well, his bisexuality would be portrayed by the fact that he was in love with Peggy in one film, and is in love with Falcon in another. Doesn’t really require explanation, they could honestly just shrug it off.

        • Muthsarah

          True, but that’d be pretty damn subtle for any mainstream film.

          Gah, even I think I’m too cynical. I wanna be a dreamer too. Making Cap bi (especially in a casual, that’s just how it is, way) won’t happen, but it shouldn’t hurt to talk about it as if it still could.

      • Rachel

        Or… stick with me, here, this is a big one: Someone could ask.

        “So, what, Steve. Do you only like dudes now?” God, wow. That’s so difficult and confusing. I can’t imagine.

        • Muthsarah

          Bear in mind, I was talking about ways of exploring (even explaining) Cap’s sexuality that are consistent with the ways big-budget films tend to do these things. I may be underestimating the studio’s ability to do this well, but what I’m trying to do is not to overestimate the studios’ estimation of the audience and how they would react to such a thing being dropped into a series that thus far has had nothing to do with sex. Not to get too idealistic, I mean. I’m happy enough to see a good blockbuster movie, and genuinely tickled to see one that exercises restraint and/or subtlety…regarding anything. Hence why I started by mentioning Hollywood movies, not just movies in general.

          Since I cannot, off the top of my head, think of any other big-budget, tentpole-ish movie that took such a tack towards bisexuality (male bisexuality, at least), I was brainstorming ways I think thinking they WOULD in all likelihood do it, not simply HOW they could do it in a fashion that most people would find reasonable. Because they’d have good reason to suspect, no matter how they do it, that it would cause a firestorm of controversy, and they don’t need such a controversy to make their films a hit. And, regardless of whether or not it makes a big deal as regards the story, it would nonetheless be a very big deal for the movie as a product (and perhaps as a political and even artistic statement).

          Personally, I don’t think the movie series needs to go there. As someone else pointed out in this comment section, main characters’ sexuality is too-often expected to be made explicit, even if it has nothing to do with the story being told. I’d be happy with Cap’s sexuality not being explored at all, and to just leave it open to debate for those who care.

  • Alexa

    This is a really interesting idea, but I am also open to him being bisexual because he did seem really into both Peggy Carter and Falcon. Also he was really dedicated to Bucky as well. Seriously thinking back to when he saved Bucky in the first film, you could play “I will always love you” and it would totally fit. I’m open to him being gay, I have more of a crush on Winter Soldier anyway ;)

  • Endorenna

    Sharon is Cap’s girlfriend in the comics? I had no idea. I thought perhaps they were introducing her in order to later make her Ms. Marvel or something. (I simply knew that one of the Ms. Marvel’s name was Sharon, nothing else about her, so perhaps that was really stupid idea.) She did seem rather boring.

    I’m not sure I agree Cap should be gay, though. I think that kinda cheapens the thing with Peggy in the first film. Bisexual, sure, but not strictly gay, I don’t think…

    Also, maybe I’m blind, but I thought Falcon and Cap just looked like good army buddies or something. XD Go figure. Either way, I’m good, but if they make that move, would still prefer him to be bisexual over gay for the above reasons.

    What I really DON’T want is for Captain America and Black Widow to be an item. They made an awesome team, but not as a romantic team, I don’t think. He’s too gentlemanly and honest and all that to go well with her, the consummate spy/assassin who openly admits that she discards identities like the rest of us discard napkins. What I would love, though, is for Black Widow and the Winter Soldier to become a thing. Perhaps I’m crazy, but when they were beating the crap out of each other and she was trying to strangle him and all, I though, “D’aww, they’re perfect for each other! If they ever stop trying to murder each other…” They’re both assassins, they both have a lot of blood on their hands, they’re both extremely good at what they do, and somehow, I don’t think moving into different identities would bother them too terribly much. Don’t get me wrong, I would also love Hawkeye and Black Widow, or Black Widow not having to have any dude at all, I would just prefer the Winter Soldier or Hawkeye with her over Captain America.

    And that was really off topic. This is what happens when I write posts late in the evening.

  • John Wilson

    I feel this feeds into the idea that a person can’t be a virgin without something being wrong with the person. If Cao doesn’t want a relationship right now, that fine. It also gives the idea that two best friends of the same sex are automatically homo for each other.

  • Tipe

    I think you just want to see your ship become canon. (Haha, playing with you.) Nonetheless, I would be absolutely delighted to see a queer Steve Rogers! But I’d rather see him with Tony than Sam. If Tony were born a woman, she’d be married to Steve, and that’s in the canon, so it’s definitely more likely. But Sam/Cap is cute, too.

    • Muthsarah

      Ewww…Cap marrying the descendent of someone he knew back in the 40s? Gross! :p

      And we all know Toni would totally hook up with Bruce.

      P.S. What canon has a female Iron Man?

      EDIT: OK, just looked it up. Comics are…a lot more out there than I thought.

      • Tipe

        Shh, just Google search “Earth-3490”.

  • morethanjustmachines

    So, two things:
    1. He’s not gay.
    2. AND he’s not gay.
    I would love a BISEXUAL Captain America. I love the concept. Love it, love it, love it.
    But he CAN’T be GAY?
    Do you know WHY?
    I’ll give you a hint: it starts with a P…
    PEGGY CARTER.
    Okay, so it starts with an M. For Margaret.
    But, given MCU’s depiction, Steve Rogers could’ve easily had his sights set on Bucky pre-WWII.
    In the 21st century, Steve Rogers could EASILY have a thing for Falcon.
    But he’s still. Not. Gay.
    Do not discard his LOVE for Peggy Carter for the sake of social justice. Despite MY love for social justice, that simply cannot be done. Their relationship was a fantastic part of Captain America: the First Avenger, and I think we can all agree after Captain America: the Winter Soldier it’s been firmly established.
    I would LOVE to have a bisexual Captain America. Hell, he could be asexual and biromantic! He could be pansexual if that’s who he is.
    Kudos to Marvel if they can pull that off.

    • Thoroughly Unimpressed

      FUCKING THANK YOU. I am 100% here for bisexual Steve Rogers but godfuckingdammit fandom stop erasing and downplaying the importance of female characters. We get few enough as is.

    • karina

      i will agreed with whatever male/female character that is NOT the younger niece of his still living ex for him

  • Johanna

    It’d be amazing to see a bi!Captain America, but I think that the narrative of the movie points towards Bucky as a possible love interest, not Sam.

  • Adena Z09283

    I wonder just how enthused everyone would be about insisting upon Cap’s gayness if Chris Evans looked like Zach Galifianakis and Falcon looked like Steve Urkel. I bet the enthusiasm level would go down about 99.8%.

    • Alex

      So Chris and Anthony are hot – a lot of people like seeing that together. Zach and Steve are less so (which I don’t get because Steve is still pretty attractive) – but so what? I would be ecstatic at the representation! People would be enthusiastic, because most of the population aren’t white straight men and want films with greater diversity.
      Personally, I don’t see it ever becoming canon, at least in the movies (maybe in the comics) but Cap could definitely be bisexual. He has strong relationships with both men and women – his relationship with Bucky at least a large part of the focus for both his title films (in CATFA, he goes directly against orders to save him, in CATWS the whole film title is a combination of their two names) – and arguably these relationships with men are equal, if not stronger than his relationships with women.

  • André Manuel de Rosendo-Isidro

    I think it would be clever to make him bi in the comics, because they have so much “space” and time to expand the character, and it would be a bold statement to challenge the readers views of what’s supposed to be the “perfect american”, but in the movies it wouldn’t advance the story in anyway, neither would expand on his personality. Making him gay just so the current generation could brag on who much we evolved over the years would be kind of annoying, honestly (I’m perfectly fine with the little references they throw every now and then about the current world vs caps world). And I even though he had chemistry with Falcon, he had A LOT more chemistry with Black Widow (in my opinion). And I also think it’s creepy that in the comics he hooks up with Peggy’s niece, but I think but that it’s not a reason why he should be gay. In fact, the only real reason you gave was the last one, and you can already see that not every one agrees with you in that aspect. In fact, the first two reasons make up a much stronger argument on why they should dismiss captains love life all together.

    And touching on that subject, you referenced Frozen, so let me give my view about that whole subject (and this part is not directly to you). There’s literally nothing that specifically addresses Elsa as a gay character! Sure, her struggle can be compared with a struggle of gays, lesbians and so on, but it encompasses so much more than a struggle with sexual identity. People need to realize that the reason Elsa’s arc speaks to them is because it touches subjects EVERY ONE goes through. “Oh but she wasn’t given a love interest” you say, well, that’s because the whole point of the movie is that love is more than what couples feel between them. And also, you (as in not “you”, but the whole world) can’t define a person by what she’s not or what she doesn’t have, so please stop doing that! Oh and to every LGBT member out there, don’t worry! Even though no one really knows Elsa’s sexuality, you can still claim to have a gay character in a Disney movie. I’m talking about the guy in the shop. Yep! I’m like 90% sure he’s gay. Don’t believe me? Try to find his wife in the sauna.

    • NurseCait

      Well sexuality and romantic interest in general wouldn’t ever really forward the plot of these kind of movies anyway, so making the romantic interest a guy instead of a girl really wouldn’t be a big deal. And your right, Steve shouldn’t be gay, he should be as you suggested for the comics, bisexual, for all those reasons you stated it would be good for the comics, it would be good for the movies too.

      Plus it wouldn’t change or need to change his character at all. If you look back at Captain America: The First Advenger you’ll notice that when when Peggy asked him why he didn’t just ask a girl out he replied with “I guess I’m waiting for the right partner” Not woman or man, partner. A gender neutral term. Also, as I stated above in my own comment, making him gay would possibly negate his past relationship with Peggy. But making him bi? That could put his past and now current relationship with Bucky in a whole new light. and also as stated in my comment, that little necklace says who Back Widow likes.

      As as for what you said about Frozen, of course there isn’t any confirmation for Elsa’s sexuality, Disney is a big muti-million dollar company that doesn’t want to risk ‘tarnishing’ it’s ‘family image’. And the guy at the trading booth? Sure, the imagery shows that the guy in the sauna was obviously his partner but good luck finding a public address by Disney that the guy was actually gay. As, if you pay close attention, you will see there IS a woman in the sauna as well, who coulds easily be brushed off as either their teen daughter, or his wife, depending hoe homophobic the viewer is.
      Elsa is not confirmed to be anything, because Disney doesn’t have the back bone to let her be. It’s all in subtext and interpretation because big movie companies are to scared to take that step forward and acknowledge the minority who’ve been ignored or push to the side as a comic relief in main stream media. But how could the lgbt community dare think that out of the 60+ animated movies of disney or the dozens of superhero movie that they could ever have a confirmed non straight character, or, heaven forbid, a non straight LEAD character!

      Because, after all, heterosexual is the natural default with out a pre-stated romantic preference, isn’t it?

      • André Manuel de Rosendo-Isidro

        I agree with what your saying, but my point, both for Caps or Elsa is that their sexuality shouldn’t even be an issue, because both movies are not about that. I understand that after years of oppression and discrimination, the LGBT now feels entitled to have some sort of overcompensation in the way the media portrays them. And to some extent they do. And come to think of it, from the top of my head, there were already two oscar winning movies that addressed homosexuality and took it as one of their main themes (Brokeback Mountain and Dallas Buyers Club), so it’s not like we are heading in the wrong direction. But I think the fairest way to treat any sexual orientation in movies where that is not one of it’s main themes is to dismiss it as not that big of a deal, and that wouldn’t really happen if Cap, all of a sudden came out of the closet. I mean, I find it really hard to imagine Marvel making such a change in the character without making a huge deal out of it.

        I for one would like to see homosexuality in movies treated like I saw in one episode of Cowboy Bebop, where the main characters were in the middle of a chase scene, and one of them crashes into a room where two men are having sex. I don’t remember if he says something or not, but if he does it’s probably something like “excuse me” and then the chase continues. If Marvel does something like that to Cap, like give him a line or a single scene, that quickly establishes his orientation, but then they live it be, I will stand up and clap in the middle of the theater, but I don’t see that happening, so I think it’s better not to address Caps sexuality at all.

        • Sophie

          i assume that you are straight, from the way you use “the lgbt”, and i don’t think you really understand how it feel to be of another sexual orientation than yours. If we take brokeback mountain as an example, the movie is about them being gay and that’s kinda it. (and that suits the movie, there’s nothing wrong with that and so on) But most gay characters, in mainstream media at least, are the same, it’s all about them being gay, their struggles is about being gay, coming out or bullying and so on. What there’s next to nothing about is a character who is not defined by their sexuality. Take gay love stories. They are all about either internalized homophobia, or homophobia from others. And while, yes, that is reality and it’s a big problem, when you tell straight love stories you focus on the love story between the characters. when you tell gay love stories you focus on the fact that they’re gay and in love. Homosexuality is the theme. And by doing that you reduce the characters to their sexuality.

          Which is why I think it’s really important to address captain america’s sexuality and make him bisexual. (as you said, bisexual, not gay, both because of peggy and the fact that every other sexual orientation than homosexual is even more underrepresentated.) We need a well-known character in mainstream media who is explicitly queer but the character is not all about being gay. An action hero who just happen to be attracted to dudes too, not a bisexual man who happen to be an action hero. Give him a love story plotline, make it just like it would be a girl, but replace it with a guy (Falcon in that case. Two super hero’s who fall in love.) Or make it more complicated, make Bucky the love interest and make it a part of the main plot, while he remembers more of himself he remembers Steve and that he loved him in the ‘forties and they struggle with being together while Bucky’s not fully recovered and wake up in the middle of the night screaming. I don’t care (yes I do I care a lot about Steve and Bucky in a relationship), I just want queer representation that don’t focus on the queer part.

          Because representation IS the key. I guarantee you, there is gonna be people who watch movies with queer main characters even if a lot of people won’t, and even if a movie would suck they would probably get better reviews just because their main character was queer, just because they dared. Representation is so important, both for homophobic people to start accepting it if it becomes something really usual, and for the lgbtq+ community, where a lot of people struggle with both identity and self-acceptance, not to speak of the simple joy in seeing someone like yourself, who you can fully recognize yourself in without editing out the uber-straight part of the character.

          Uhm yeah. That’s why I really think they should make Steve bisexual, and explicitly so. None of the shitty queer-baiting currently going on in a certain tv show.

  • NurseCait

    I say make Steve Bisexual, not gay. This way not only would he be a brilliant bisexual role model, this also wouldn’t risk undermining or erasing his relationship with the lovely and badass agent Peggy Carter in his first movie.
    And while Cap and Falcon would be great together, and there is absolutely no denying that Steve was in fact flirting with Sam for a bit when they first met, Bucky, the winter soldier, in my opinion would be a much better choice for a male partner for him then Sam. It would make more sense for Bucky to be a romantic interest from a narrative stand point as this it in fact Captain America: The Winter Soldier, not Cap and the Falcon. Plus Steve said it himself multiple times in the movie, he would like someone with a little more shared life experience, if that doesn’t spell it out for you, I don’t know what will.
    Oh, and Natasha, the Black Widow, was not throwing herself at Steve, she was throwing suggestions for possible dates at Steve. Plus if you notice, through out most of the movie she is in fact wearing a sliver necklace with a little arrow on it. So chances are her heart is settled on a certain archer.

  • Bisexual Steve Rogers

    Bisexual Steve Rogers :) No need to disrespect what he had with Peggy!

  • Ricky Jones

    I don’t agree with this. Not because I’m homophobic or anything. I have a gay cousin and I love him to death, but a gay captain america? Just no. This guy brings up the fact that “hey, being gay is okay now so you don’t have to worry about it if you are” but that poses a problem with me. That would put into his mind that “maybe this new time line I’m living in now is probably working out better than the one I lived in. What if the ideals I have aren’t the best to hold onto” that’s the very thing that makes Captain America Captain America. The fact that he holds onto the old school ideas. And I don’t know why everybody jumps the conclusion with falcon and cap. They’re both army men and cap is having a hard time adjusting to this new world and he finds this man who can understand where he comes from and didn’t see him as captain america but as a fellow soldier. And it’s just a bromance. Every dude has one and it wouldn’t be very unlikely that it would happen to these two guys because being in the army you should get to know the men around you because they may be the last people you see. And I don’t care how hot black widow is. If I was Cap I wouldn’t to be with her because of all the secrets and stuff and plus I believe she’s going to wind up being with Bruce banner in the upcoming avengers movie. And he tried to be with Sharon Carter but he found out, after he finally gathered the courage to ask her out, that she was just a agent to keep an eye on him. He can’t be sure about any of these two women. But he does eventually realize that she does like him but she was just doing her job, at least that’s how I’m assuming they’ll tackle the story later on. But yah, he is definitely not gay and honestly it wouldn’t open up new stories. Half the time nobody gives a shit about love interests anyway. They just want see people punching each other and getting shit done. If anything being gay would limit the character because now his love interest is also his best friend. It’s limiting outside characters

  • Asten

    I like the idea, but the only thing that bothers me is that it hints that two men can’t be best friends without any romantical attraction.

  • Steve loves Bucky

    Your argument is invalid.
    Because James Buchman Barnes, that’s why.

    A love interest shouldn’t just be haphazardly slapped into every story. It should only be there if it drives the plot and develops the characters. So I can’t get behind a cap/falcon pairing. Honestly, it would be better to just have a single character for once without falling into the every-story-needs-a-love-interest cliche.

    A Steve/Bucky love story on the other hand, would be beutiful, tragic, and meaningful. In fact, it’s basically already there:

    “Get out of here!” “Not without you.”
    “When I had nothing, I had bucky.”
    “I’m with you to the end of the line.”
    “I knew him.”

    If that wasn’t enough:
    Steve becomes captain america to rescue Bucky.
    After Bucky dies, Steve becomes suicidally reckless and crashes a plane into the ocean.
    Steve tells Natasha he can’t date someone without his experiences (Bucky is basically the only person on the planet that has experienced what Steve has.)
    Even the bar scene between Steve and Peggy is laced with Bucky love! As Buck watches them interact, the song in the background is: “There is a tavern in the town”; the lyrics perfectly describe Bucky losing Steve to Peggy and then foreshadows his death. Read them it’s perfect.

    Think about it. If one of them was female, it would be the most obvious love story in the world.

    Also, making Steve gay (not bisexual) doesn’t invalidate his relationship with Peggy (which, remember, was never a physical one). Most gay people experience a straight crush or two before they get everything figured out (the same way straight people get the occasional “man crush”). Plus, Peggy’s personality was quite butch for the time period.

    So basically, it’s not an issue of whether Steve is/should be gay. It’s an issue of who he should be with, regardless of gender.
    Answer: Bucky.

  • Randy

    Bucky is a guy from the past… Falcon is a current man…

    I think cap is bi…

    He loves sharon… but their love/hate relationship kind of frustrastes him… and he goes for Sam…

  • Aleisha Colleen

    No bisexual Captain America would be great. He loved Peggy. And let’s be honest here if Bucky Barnes had been a woman everyone would have been screaming and wondering why Bucky wasn’t Cap’s love interest. Sam and Steve are best as close friends who understand the pain of losing someone close to them.