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Avatar or Dances With Wolves meets Dune Options · View
tonyfinn_1
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#1 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:50:44 AM
Matt Smith IS The Doctor
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OK, I'll give it to you straight, James Cameron's long-awaited 3D Sci-Fi epic isn't the cinematic second coming so many were hoping for, but it was still a damn beautiful and awe-inspiring experience. Pandora is easily one of the most convincingly alien worlds ever depicted on film with the blue-skinned Na'vi, the glowing neon foliage, the almost jurassic-looking beasts that inhabit the forrests and the floating mountains every fine detail creates a literally out-of-this-world experience.

But, that's just the problem, beyond the eye-popping visuals (Which simply must be seen in 3D) there's hardly anything else to recommend. The story about a soldier falling in with a tribe of noble savages has been done to death, and Cameron does barely anything new with the material. Worse yet, his skill at strong characterisation seems to have deserted him here, as the cast is filled with hackneyed, cliched characters, particulary the gung-ho General Ripper villain played by Stephen Lang. The only character I actually warmed to was the brassy Dr. Augustine, although I'm sure that was mostly down to another great performance from the ever-reliable Sigourney Weaver. The whole relationship between Jake and Neytiri just confirms my suspicion that romance is not one of Cameron's strong points.

Anyway, enough gabbing from me. If you want a good light show, some brilliantly-directed action sequences and can stomach a 161 minute runtime, then see see this film by all means. Just don't go expecting anything more.
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#2 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:35:32 AM

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 tonyfinn_1 wrote:
a 161 minute runtime


Gah! This will definitely wait until I can watch it at home in my comfortable chair, with a pause button in case I want to go to the bathroom or get a snack.
I'm getting way too off-topic here. Let's just kill some chickens.
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#3 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 11:22:11 AM
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 tonyfinn_1 wrote:
If you want a good light show, some brilliantly-directed action sequences and can stomach a 161 minute runtime, then see see this film by all means. Just don't go expecting anything more.

This also will be one for the home TV. Preferably HBO On-Demand, where I can start and stop it at will; my 55 year old bladder can't handle 161 minutes. Shit, it couldn't handle Star Trek's 127 minutes.
I've heard a lot about the film's pricetag; suposedly it was over $400 million. If it bombs, could Fox go under? Or, did they hedge their bets by taking on production partners? I remember when Titanic's costs escalated to $200 million, and Fox sold North American rights to Paramount. Bet they're sorry they did that now.
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#4 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:17:44 PM
I will eat your soul :D
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Wow, perhaps you gentlemen should avoid drinks at least an hour before going in to the theater? Or it might do you some good to remember to go potty before settling in for the show. If that doesn't work, there are pharmaceuticals available for overactive bladder. Talk to your doctor about Detrol, you'll be glad you did!

Anyways, I've never seen Dances With Wolves, and Dune has never been created effectively on screen, so this should be an extraordinarily engaging and awesome time for me. Can't wait to see it!
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#5 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:19:38 PM


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 adambomb1701 wrote:
This also will be one for the home TV. Preferably HBO On-Demand, where I can start and stop it at will; my 55 year old bladder can't handle 161 minutes. Shit, it couldn't handle Star Trek's 127 minutes.
I've heard a lot about the film's pricetag; suposedly it was over $400 million. If it bombs, could Fox go under? Or, did they hedge their bets by taking on production partners? I remember when Titanic's costs escalated to $200 million, and Fox sold North American rights to Paramount. Bet they're sorry they did that now.


Fox is owned by Newscorp (and similarly the other major studios are all subsidiaries of huger corporations, though Disney is sort of the center of its conglomerate I think.) The worry with any flop isn't that it'll kill the studio itself, but that it'll kill the careers of one or more people involved in giving it the greenlight- which is why studio executives are sort of jumpy about giving go-aheads to risky projects.

That said, I don't know what deals are involved with Avatar. A lot of the money was probably to develop things like face-capture and 3-D tech and so on, and those are the sorts of costs that can be amortized by using those developments in later productions, depending on who owns the results.
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#6 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 1:42:14 PM

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 xenobiological wrote:
Wow, perhaps you gentlemen should avoid drinks at least an hour before going in to the theater?


Yeah, I went to the theater last night (for the RiffTrax Christmas Shorts-stravaganza, which was awesome), and, learning from previous experience, I was careful about what I drank during the day (especially no caffeine). Even when I got my drink for the feature, I didn't fill it up all the way (seriously, is it too much to ask for a reasonably sized cup? Damn...). I usually avoid the problem by going to movie early enough I haven't had anything to drink except the milk I take with my morning meds (esp. now that, along with matinee prices, the cinema I go to has even cheaper prices for the first showing of the day in each theater).

Quote:
Or it might do you some good to remember to go potty before settling in for the show.


I always do that anyway.
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#7 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 2:44:50 PM
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I know it's spoilers and all, but do tell me - they do manage to kill all of the eeeeeeevil George W. Bush humans, right? Because that seems to be kind of the poijnt. Mocking a president a good year and a half too late.
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#8 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 2:57:24 PM

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 Ridureyu wrote:
I know it's spoilers and all, but do tell me - they do manage to kill all of the eeeeeeevil George W. Bush humans, right? Because that seems to be kind of the poijnt. Mocking a president a good year and a half too late.


Barack's just blamed Bush this past Saturday on 60 Minutes. The statute of limitations hasn't been reached apparently.
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#9 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:15:19 PM
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I don't have a problem with the running time...I'm a veteran of watching the European cut of Once Apon A Time In America and Apocalypse Now: Redux at the theatres without bursting or losing concentration. But I do want a good story and interesting characters if I am going to watch a movie that long, not just lots of FX.


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Every generation comes up with its own stories, but ours seems content to slap new coats of paint on the old ones so that it can keep telling them again and again. I'd much rather boldly go where no one has gone before.
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#10 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:35:26 PM

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 oldskool138 wrote:
Barack's just blamed Bush this past Saturday on 60 Minutes. The statute of limitations hasn't been reached apparently.


Oh, please. People were still blaming Clinton for stuff well into Bush's second term. So pardon me if I don't get too bent out of shape if people blame Bush for thing less than a year after he left office.

Oh, and as for Avatar: 1. James Cameron came up with the idea in '94, when Clinton was in office, and 2. "Humans/Americans screwing things up" has been a plot for for decades, so I'm not sure why every immediately assumes this is an attack on Bush.
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#11 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:46:55 PM


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 Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
Oh, please. People were still blaming Clinton for stuff well into Bush's second term. So pardon me if I don't get too bent out of shape if people blame Bush for thing less than a year after he left office.


Thank you.

Quote:
Oh, and as for Avatar: 1. James Cameron came up with the idea in '94, when Clinton was in office, and 2. "Humans/Americans screwing things up" has been a plot for for decades, so I'm not sure why every immediately assumes this is an attack on Bush.


Hey they also thought Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith were a commentary on Bush, so anything is possible.

Anyway I haven't seen a whole lot regarding this film, and what I have seen is mostly filtered through less than reputable eyes (i.e. 4chan's Mecha board which spends half the time deriding the mech designs and the other half going "OMG PLANET OF FURRIES", but I digress). The thing is I don't really feel anything towards this film in terms of wanting to see it or even saying "it sucks" based on just looking at trailers. It kinda feels like a movie that is just "there" more than anything else.

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#12 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:19:39 PM

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So Dune with kickass special effects? Yes please. Dances With Wolves I can live without, but the Dune stuff looked cool.

 Fish Eye no Miko wrote:

Oh, and as for Avatar: 1. James Cameron came up with the idea in '94, when Clinton was in office, and 2. "Humans/Americans screwing things up" has been a plot for for decades, so I'm not sure why every immediately assumes this is an attack on Bush.

I read somewhere that the Stephen Lang character refers to 'fighting terror with terror', or the like. This line was probably added much later than the 1990s, to be coy, and may have been a direct commentary on Bush.

So you can have this cake both ways.
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#13 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 5:55:45 PM


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Human ends up in a culture that reveres nature and ends up fighting against his own kind alongside them... Where have i seen that before... Oh Gods! It's gorram FERN GULLY!
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#14 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:13:22 PM
Functionally awesome.
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You know what? I kinda actually liked this. I don't love it, and I found myself unable to be moved at all..but the film chugs along very well and has some really rewarding beats. So I'm coming off pleasantly suprised. Also a lot of people are bitching about Stephen Lang's villian, but he's honestly the most lively and delightful character in the film. He might be a cliche, but he's a really fun cliche.


Quote:
Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
Oh, please. People were still blaming Clinton for stuff well into Bush's second term. So pardon me if I don't get too bent out of shape if people blame Bush for thing less than a year after he left office.


Thank you.


I'm amused that we're now supposed to find it eye-rolling when one of the more unlikeable presidents gets brought back up for more mocking. It's like getting mad at the Simpsons every time they bring back Nixon for a joke.

Then again considering the guys who've raised this issue on the boards.....



Quote:
Human ends up in a culture that reveres nature and ends up fighting against his own kind alongside them... Where have i seen that before... Oh Gods! It's gorram FERN GULLY!


Did you also know that its very similar to Dances with Wolves? Or the Last Samurai? I know I was pretty amazed when I first heard as well.
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#15 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:14:14 PM
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Leaving Bush parallels aside, the story is one that's been doing the rounds in cinemas since the late 60s where techologically advanced "progressive" humans (and let's be frank...it's not humans in general but the Western military/industrial complex and consumerism) exploit nature and opress natives in order to get what they want. My guess is that it's a comment on imperialism and the manifest destiny. So yeah, Dances With Wolves meets Soldier Blue meets The Last Samurai meets Fern Gully. And it looks like Dune meets Yessongs meets Aliens meets the Smurfs meets the Dragon Riders of Pern. But hey, it's got the best motion capture film technology ever devised and cost $250 million (not $400). And Sigourney Weaver is still hot.

It seems in Hollywood movies that the closer characters are to nature, the nicer and more noble the depiction is of them. However, the more advanced the technology employed to make the movie, the more triumphant Hollywood sounds. So they spend hundreds of millions and use the most advanced SFX software to tell the story that we need to be less dependent on money and technology and embrace nature.

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Every generation comes up with its own stories, but ours seems content to slap new coats of paint on the old ones so that it can keep telling them again and again. I'd much rather boldly go where no one has gone before.
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#16 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 8:28:35 PM


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 Lyinar wrote:
Human ends up in a culture that reveres nature and ends up fighting against his own kind alongside them... Where have i seen that before... Oh Gods! It's gorram FERN GULLY!


I think at this point, more people have made that comparison than have actually ever seen Fern Gully.
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#17 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 11:14:24 PM


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 Lyinar wrote:
Human ends up in a culture that reveres nature and ends up fighting against his own kind alongside them... Where have i seen that before... Oh Gods! It's gorram FERN GULLY!


Really? You have to go all the way back to the 1992 release of FernGully? How about May, 2009? That was when a science-fiction CGI fest was released, all about humans invading an alien planet with the express intention of annihilating the local ecology and local people for their own convenience, and how a human pilot (male) makes friends with one of the mer-eelishlike natives (female) and turns against his own people to try to prevent the oncoming destruction. It even had an oddly selective gravity involved, to give it that extra added open-air feeling. It was entitled Battle for Terra, and it was fully animated, no motion capture involved, and marketed for a younger audience than Avatar. That said, even that younger audience was probably kind of jaded to this theme through overexposure to things like FernGully.
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#18 Posted : Friday, December 18, 2009 12:17:49 AM

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 Evan Waters wrote:
I think at this point, more people have made that comparison than have actually ever seen Fern Gully.

I've seen Fern Gully... and I don't think I want to see it again, even in 3-D.
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#19 Posted : Friday, December 18, 2009 9:28:54 AM
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 Nick wrote:
I don't have a problem with the running time...I'm a veteran of watching...Apocalypse Now: Redux at the theatre without bursting or losing concentration.

I was able to handle Apocalypse Now: Redux in a theater as well. All 202 minutes of it, without a break. This was a couple of years before my prostate problems began. Which hit the fan when I went to see this year's Star Trek. I'm taking Avodart for that; yesterday, without thinking, I referred to the drug as "Avatar." Wink

 Nick also wrote:
But hey, it's got the best motion capture film technology ever devised and cost $250 million (not $400).

I got the $400 million figure from a recent 60 Minutes profile of James Cameron, done while he was working on Avatar. The thing I noticed most about Cameron is that he'd shaved the beard he's worn for what seemed like forever.
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#20 Posted : Friday, December 18, 2009 11:51:26 AM
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In an interview with Cameron on British TV two days ago he dismissed suggestions that it was $400 million and said it was in the region of $250 million.

http://www.rhubba.com ; the comedy sketch show on the internet.


Every generation comes up with its own stories, but ours seems content to slap new coats of paint on the old ones so that it can keep telling them again and again. I'd much rather boldly go where no one has gone before.
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