RAW FEED: Feminism... it contradicts itself.

It just does.

Source on Mary Leigh; http://spartacus-educational.com/WleighM.htm

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  • CaptainCalvinCat

    I have to say – for me, feminism is all about equality and basically: Don’t be a dick towards a person, you know? Just try to treat persons as persons – if THEY decide, that they want to be dicks to you, of course you’re not required to stay in the “Ms. Nice-Girl” or “Mr. Nice-guy” role – then you can be as mean and as asshole-ish as you like, but at first, just try to be civil.

    You said in one of your videos “You can do it, if you work hard” – that’s true. But if you’re a woman (and that one can see with the equal – pay – gap), you have to work hardER to make it.

    Sure you can try to make all of that rational – you can bring up reasons, that that would be okay, because… I don’t know, because you could bring in the old argument that women work in other jobs etc. – that doesn’t change the fact, that it would be dickish behaviour.

  • jjramsey

    Oh, geez. I’ll concede that one can say that it is “one-sided” (to use your turn of phrase) for feminist movements to be about women’s rights. And this is wrong, why? I expect, for example, a gay rights movement to be about the rights of gays. Nothing wrong with an activist movement having a particular focus. So you can look back on the feminist movement and find that those in it are (gasp!) imperfect. Some feminists have done questionable actions, such as the destruction of property. Some had absorbed the racism of their time. Some disagree with each other on how to best serve the ends of their movements. Gee, it’s as if feminists are humans and have human foibles. What a shocker.

    (Notice I tend to refer to feminist movements, plural. “Feminism” is probably best understood less as a label for a particular view, and more as an umbrella term for a family of viewpoints and ideologies that all share the idea that women should not be second-class citizens, but may not share much else.)

    • MichaelANovelli

      I think the real problem tends to be that most feminist activism is about propping up a specific subsection of women, while claiming to represent all women and queer males. (We’d just as well not get dragged into that, thank you.) A lot has actually been written about how, for example, the black feminist movement was almost completely undermined by second-wave feminism, on account of their concerns in re racial profiling and poverty were “off-message”. It would be one thing if the movement carrying the label said one thing and did another; that kind of thing happens all the time. But when you puff yourself up and force people facing other issues to adopt your label, while at the same time downplaying the issues central to the people you’re forcing to join your movement, that’s quite another…

  • danbreunig

    The real lesson I take away from this whole collective mess is not even anything attached to arguments, concepts, misuses, history, rights, truths, or bullshits tied to all these battles tied to feminism.

    It’s simply this: FOLLOW THE GOLDEN RULE, EVERYBODY.
    That common decency you learn from your folks, the nature of real empathy, the value of human life.
    To treat others as you want them to treat you. That’s it. I know that maybe only two people may read this comment but I may be the only one today you’ll hear actually say it. Care!

    This is a great video you made, Sofie. Your six minutes here is more direct and honest than whole days’ worth of social arguments that never come to a successful conclusion.

    In a very off and bizarre note, just a quirk I noticed, Sofie–
    between 1:16 and 1:43 you sound like you’re playing Pia again. Normally I may find that funny, but actually it was kind of scary, simply because there are people in the real world just like that, with the same mentality and apathy.

    • JD

      The problem is there are a lot of people that dont learn common decency from thier parents.Or manners or politeness. just hate or bitterness or what ever else the parent foists off on the kid as “good” parenting.

      • CaptainCalvinCat

        That might have something to do with the fact, that people see “nice” and being friendly as weak, naive and ready to be exploited nowadays.
        “Nett ist die kleine Schwester von Scheiße” (Nice is shit’s little sister) as the German saying goes. If you’re nice, people see that as a weakness, today – so you toughen up, which is leading to the misconception that common decency is a weakness, too, which is passed down to the next generation.

  • CaptainCalvinCat

    Okay, back, now with more nitpicking. ^^

    00:10 and following – We’re off to a good start 😉 Sure, you ask 10 persons, you’ll have
    10 different opinions about what feminism is – buuuuuuuuuut that’s not saying,
    that those 10 persons would be unanimous concerning other things.
    Best example: the crisis in greece.
    Was the greferendum just a big frakking waste of time?

    Surely, you’ll find someone, who argues “yes – because no one knew, what the
    voting was even about.”

    Then you have other persons, like me, who are saying: “Well, I disagree – a) it was
    about frakking time, that the greece prime minister asked his people, if he was
    even talking in their favour anymore and B) this is shaking the whole idea of
    the EU up pretty badly – I mean: if that is working in greece, what is stopping
    the other countries to say “Wait, what about us?”

    And I can tell you what – fear. Fear that if they side with greece
    now (which would be a good idea, telling those other countries, that just
    because they gave greece
    the money, they have no business of telling them WHAT they need to spend their
    money on and WHERE they need to cut corners) they’d suffer dire consequences if
    that would not work out.”

    And you have your extreme left-wing person, who would be yelling that all capitalism is
    evil and that we should bow down to Lenin and Max and Engels – you would have your extreme right-wing
    person, who would be saying that the whole idea of intermingling those nations
    was stupid and that we would all be better off, if it had some kind of wall
    around it (which the extreme-left-wing person could say “awesome
    idea” to) – and already we have four different opinions floating around in
    the room. Add six more to it and the only way, you can start bloodshed faster,
    would be, if you’d go to a bar in Cologne and would say that the
    “Altbier” would be the most yummy beer you’d ever drank.

    00:35 and following: Personally, I wouldn’t say that you have no respect for those
    persons, but I would ask you if you’d be happy, if the feminists of the old
    days hadn’t done what they had done. And then – just to drive the point home, I’d demand that you’d bring me a sandwich.

    Don’t get me wrong, Sofie, not trying to troll you, just drive the point home. See – and I’m sure you know that – if they hadn’t stood up for a better treatment, I’m pretty sure you’d not be making
    videos about how you view feminism as a joke.

    Couple of months ago a German journalist by the name of Ronja von Rönne wrote an article
    about how feminism would be making her sick. She said that she didn’t have any
    problems, so feminism would clearly be obsolete.

    And – sure you can argue that in our modern world the women have it better than in the
    eighteen-hundreds. No one is debating that, not even the most
    crazy-for-coocopuffs-feminist would disagree that women have it better now,
    than back then.

    Okay – but: Does that suffice?
    An example of my native country.

    We all know, that I’m from Germany and as the youngest ones of visitors of that
    homepage maybe don’t know, but people who were born till 1985 definitely knew, was that my Country was devided in two seperate states – the FRG and the GDR.

    People, who were in ’89 old enough to grasp the change of the world back in the days, know
    that prior to the wall coming down one sentence was screamed, yelled, chanted :
    “WIR SIND DAS VOLK!” (We are the people!)
    It was the scream for unity.

    Well the wall came down and – Wilfried Schmickler, a cabaret artist put it precisely:
    “We are the people – yes, in the same vain you are. In the end it just was
    about 100 Mark Begrüßungsgeld (a starter kit of Western Deutsche Mark roughly
    about 50 Euros today) and 2 weeks Mallorca
    every year”.

    So they reached their goal – Germany is now united. And? is that the end of the story?
    Or is there more to come? Or were those two to three perks, that Germany
    was united sufficing?

    Same with feminism: Yes – they reached a lot of goals. But is that it? Or are there more
    inequalities?

    1:14: Yeah – feminism was one sided because of the inequalities towards women. I thought
    that was pretty clear. ^^ Now, those inequalities have stopped – or are at
    least taken down a few (or more) notches, but again: Does that mean feminism is
    done?

    3:28 From the link, you provided us with: On 22nd September 1909 Mary Leigh, Charlotte Marsh, Rona Robinson and Laura Ainsworth conducted a rooftop protest at Bingley Hall, Birmingham, where Herbert Asquith was addressing a meeting from which all women
    had been excluded.

    So, there was a peaceful meeting – okay… one that women were not allowed to participate
    in – and obviously those four persons wanted to have a SAY in it. So they broke
    in. By the way: Force-feeding those women – CLASSY. But you’re right – if a man
    had done that… but why would a man try to break in on a protest, that he was
    clearly allowed to participate?

    And I’m not saying, that you’re allowed to break into meetings, you’ve no business being
    into – like Neelix liked to do – I’m just saying, that there is a little difference between forcing your way into a meeting, because you were not invited, because you’re not a manager or so and forcing your way into a meeting, that you were not invited to, because you don’t have a penis (or a vagina). And yes, if the world would be swapped, and earth would be a world, in which women were ruling over man and dominate them and saying, that they’d be not intelligent enough to understand what the big cheeses would be talking over – and if a man would force his way into such a conference, I’d be saying “Leave that guy alone. He’s fighting for equality – all he wants to do is being heard and taken seriously.

    3:37 Yes, they were fighting for equal rights. For THEIR equal rights to be heard at the meeting and later for their right of voting. Say what you want: That is fighting for (at least a little part of) equality.

    3:50: Mendo will later point that out, too – “I think the real problem tends to be
    that most feminist activism is about propping up a specific subsection of
    women, while claiming to represent all women and queer males. (We’d just as
    well not get dragged into that, thank you.)”

    On the other hand: Of course they are propping up or are catering to a certain target-group. What else will you do? Broad generalizations?

    4:20 Yeap, people do that. You do it, I do it, Birds do it, Bees do it, even educated beings do it – erm… sorry, wrong song. ^^ But – people try to shape this complex rotation-ellipsoid that is our planet and try to make sense of that – so they bend it to make it appeal to their vision of the world.

    4:55 Yeah, you’re right – no matter how you do it, you do it wrong.

    5:06 Nothing to throw your arms up and make a face about, Sofie – that’s the view of these groups. And it’s just showing, that this is a very complex topic. The question is: Where does treating people nicely and as equal to yourself begin and where does it end? It does sound very simple, now, does it? Just be nice to people. Well, it isn’t that simple.

    Would you consider “greeting a person if you meet it” polite?

    What would you think, if you’d be walking through your city, totally minding your own business and some person appears out of the blue and is nodding at you, greetingly.

    Would you think: “Wauw – that person is really nice?”

    Or would you think: “Who is this weirdo?”

    Concerning the Burque – It has something to do with the way you were brought up – if you were brought up in an environment, which is pro-burque you’d find more comments on how that article of clothing is feminist. if you’d brought up in an environment, where people would be condemning it, you’d say that this is the most un-feminist article of clothing in the world.

    “What do you want from me, world?!!!!!!!!!” – I think, that is the most true question, ever uttered. And I’m honest: I have no frakking idea. Just go through your life as you see it fit. If people admonish you about it, see, if there lies any truth and if it does, try to change accordingly – if not, let them think, what they want to think and go your merry way.

    One thing concerning the name “feminism” – I had the idea a couple of years ago, that, if the words “Feminism” and “Feminist” were so botched and tarnished, that – maybe – one should find another term for “equality to all”. What about “Equalist”?

    But then: I’m pretty sure, that the same way “feminsim” got a bad rap over the course of some hundred years worth of history, in the year 2315 “equalism” could be have gotten a bad rap, too.So – no, the term “feminsim” should stay. Sure, you have your nutjobs – like Alice Schwarzer, who said that it’d be okay to castrate men.

    AS a man I say “OUCH!”.
    As a feminist man, I say “OUCH” , too.

    But those are your wackos, that you have in any group: in the reviewer-community, in the LARP-community, in the Fanfiction-Community (especially in the Fanfiction-community ^^), in the capitalist-community, and whatever communities you could have – there are nincompoops in there, even vocal ones.

    That you have your idiots at any party, that doesn’t mean that the party is bad.

    Or to quote Bernd Stelter in his book “Nie wieder Ferienhaus” (Never vacation lodge again”: “In jeder Nachbarschaft gibt es ein Arschloch – aber deshalb muss man doch nicht gleich das ganze Haus verkaufen” (In every neighbourhood there is ONE asshole – you don’t need to sell the whole house because of it.)

    And one last thing concerning feminsim – one question, if you will:

    Do you think, that – if there hadn’t been a feminist movement – the world had changed?

    Do you think, that some day one of the guys had said: “You know what? I’m missing something here – I can’t put my finger to it.”
    And the other guy had said: “Well, we could listen to the other half of earths population?”

    Feminism was a necessity – some women started it, other women noticed that “hey, they’re talking about problems concerning me” and were latching onto that, more and more people noticed, that those issues were concerning them and are still of relevance today.